The Stewardship Mindset: Ken Gosnell's Guide to Hearing 'Well Done'

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Seek, go create the leadership journey, inspiring Christian entrepreneurs and

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leaders to integrate faith and business.

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Join me, Tim Winders, for conversations that will transform

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your life and your work.

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What does it truly mean to lead a life and business that earns the words?

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Well done.

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Join us as we welcome Ken Gosnell, author and founder of CEO Experience whose life

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mission is to guide faith-driven CEOs toward achieving both kingdom impact

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and business success.

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Ken, drawing on timeless biblical principles and his own father's

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legacy of hard work and integrity

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helps leaders create a meaningful legacy.

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We'll discuss how you can align your professional achievements

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with your spiritual calling

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for an eternally rewarding

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journey.

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Ken, welcome to Seat.

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Go create.

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Go Create.

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Hey, thank you Tim.

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I'm glad to be here.

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I am glad you're here too, man.

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We are fighting through some good technical issues, but us

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two bright and mature smart guys.

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We can figure it out, I'm sure.

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So,

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hey Ken, let's jump in here.

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We're gonna have a great conversation.

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We've got a lot of good things to discuss, but I wanna start off, wanna

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give you a choice between two questions, answering the questions, what do you do

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or who are you?

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Pick the question and go ahead and start answering.

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I believe who is always bigger than what And, so, who I am is a strong,

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faith driven entrepreneur and CEO that has been called to work with Christian

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leaders to help them grow their business.

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but to do so, to hear the words well done by having kingdom impact.

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I believe in Ephesians two 10 that says we're God's workmanship and that

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we've been created to do good works that God has prepared in advance.

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many years ago I was working with the non-Christian businesses and

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helping them grow their business One day God kind of convicted me to say,

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what am I doing for his kingdom?

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And I thought, after a period of time, that'd be nice to work with

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Christian businesses and help them to grow their business, but also to have

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a longer term impact, for eternity.

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And so that's where CEO experience was birthed.

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And now we've been doing it for almost 20 years.

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so you worked with what we'll call heathens, I guess, is that

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what, can we use that term?

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I prefer that they weren't c they were, not Christian yet.

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yet

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phrasing.

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But yes.

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They, you

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the Gentiles of the world, you went out to the bars and all that?

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No, no.

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I'm,

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no.

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and I think though.

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Ken isn't, isn't that the journey that a lot of people go on?

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You know, you probably had a faith, I'm guessing it sounds like you

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grew up with that and have had that.

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You went out, you were

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were.

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pursuing your riches.

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That sounds bad, but you know what I mean.

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And then, and then over time that journey transformed.

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Tell me a little bit about what it was like when you were out

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in the, the non-Christian space.

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'cause I'm gonna, I'm gonna dig into the things you have done within

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the space you're in now, but I'd like to get a, before GI gimme

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a glimpse of what that was like.

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Absolutely.

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You know, I was trained to work hard.

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You mentioned my father.

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My father taught us the importance of discipline and hard work and.

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And, so I was raised to work in many ways and believed that work was one of the

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most valuable things that we could do.

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I also had a faith and my faith journey, you know, had its own different stops

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or, or ups and downs along the way.

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So I'm not, claiming that I was a great Christian all the time, 'cause

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I made my share of mistakes as well.

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But I knew that I was, really created for business and I wanted to grow businesses.

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I wanted to grow my own business.

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And so, my desire and drive was to help businesses to succeed.

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but through that process I also believed in wisdom and understanding.

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I read a lot of great business books, had a lot of great experiences,

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myself, all those types of things.

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But the best wisdom that I had found was really found in the Bible.

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And so what I found myself doing was teaching a lot of these secular business.

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Individuals business principles that were good.

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They made a lot of business sense, but they were also

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really founded in scripture.

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I just didn't tell them that, if that makes sense.

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You know, so like the idea of always taking the second step, going a little

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bit further than what's expected or anticipated, every business will agree

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that that's a good concept or a good idea, and to really try to practice

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that not only in their customer experience, but maybe in how you treat

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employees or how you treat vendors or a variety of different topics.

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But what I found is that all of a sudden God kind of challenged me

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to say, Hey, why don't you tell people where this wisdom comes from?

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And what I found in my own personal journey is I could go a day or a

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week, or maybe even a month, and I was thinking about business and everything

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business, and I was thinking about the businesses that we were working in but

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I wasn't necessarily thinking about God.

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Or what God was asking me to do with that particular business owner.

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And I'll never forget, I was working with a business owner and he was out in Ohio

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and, he was building his business and growing it and dynamically growing it.

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I worked for him for a few years and, I noticed that there was some cracks

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and not in the business, but in him personally and in his relationship with

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his spouse and all these kinds of things.

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And you know, I mentioned it to him and I said, Hey, you

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might want to shore that up.

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It looks like there's some, there's some, you know, 'cause we had

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developed a friendship or relationship.

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I was a trusted advisor, if you will, to him.

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And he's like, no, Ken, I got it.

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It's all good.

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It's all good.

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You know, no worries.

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So anyway, we got the business up and it was really highly functioning.

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Finished my contractual relationship with him, and I remember about six

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months later, he called me in the middle of the night, and, which was a shock.

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I wasn't sure what was happening, but of course, he answered the phone

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when he get a call in the middle of the night and he, he started the

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message with, everything's gone.

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And I said, what, you know, what are you, what are you talking about?

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He said, I came home tonight and my wife and my three kids and

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everything in my house has been packed up and gone, and she's left.

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And the only note that she left me was, don't contact me, I'll contact you.

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It's over.

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And then he said something I'll never forget, which is pretty powerful.

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He said, I've done it all for nothing.

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Right?

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He had built this great business and there's a story in the Bible,

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by the way about that, right?

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There's a story about a guy that all of a sudden has this great surplus and he

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built these bigger barns and God says.

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You know, you fool, I'm gonna take your life from you tonight.

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And he says that that'll be the way you fool for everybody that

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builds great bars for themselves, but is not rich towards God.

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I was living life, I was enjoying it.

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It was good.

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I mean, I was having good success.

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I was, you know, traveling a lot, helping a lot of businesses that were growing.

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So it wasn't a terrible life.

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But when that challenge came and I had to discern was I really rich

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towards God and was I helping other guys not just get rich, but was I

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helping them to get rich towards God?

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That was a real defining moment for me.

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Hmm, that's, it is fascinating And

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unfortunately that's a story.

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story.

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it, it's a very specific story for you, but it's also a story that's

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not uncommon, and I know that you've probably heard it before.

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I'm curious, Ken, I don't know what age you were at or when that was

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in your life, but prior to that,

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would you say that your faith and your work life were sort of

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segmented or were you just a little

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silent about it?

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Did you keep it under a bushel?

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I mean, what,

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how would you describe how your faith was prior to that or how it sounds like

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you were living it, it's just you weren't

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you weren't

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sharing it as much.

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It was still segmented though, because, you know, it didn't

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really bleed over necessarily into my business life unless I saw.

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Lets it like a plank that hit me in the face, if that makes sense.

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Right.

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so something that was so easy to blend it over.

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And, so, you know, but I was kind of taught you go to work, to do your work.

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And even when I talked to my, a pastor at my church when I told him I wanted

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to start a business, I said, well, how do I do this according to God?

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And he said, well, you know, just go be successful and then

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you can give to the church.

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Right.

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And you know, so even in that philosophy, it's a little bit of separation.

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And I'm not downplaying that, that 'cause that's an important part to do.

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But I believe in integration.

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It doesn't have to be separate.

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And one of the things that I found and where God challenged me was, I'm better

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when it's not compartmentalized, when it is fully on display, when it's fully

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interacted with, when it's fully, I'm considering myself a steward of the

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business, not an owner of the business.

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And I'm really asking God, what does he want me to do with this business and

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what decision does he wanna make, even when it doesn't make sense to me or maybe

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to my team or the rest of the world.

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So, yeah, that's really good.

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You mentioned segmented and I recognized that I

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was that way also, and for me, it was

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the two by four to the head that got my attention.

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I mean, I would've said I was a man of faith and people

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might've known it had they been around me,

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but I probably kept some of it separate.

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And the problem is it allows you to justify things.

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I believe.

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I think you can compromise and justify and all.

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And there's another thing that came to mind.

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mind.

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I believe it's more stressful,

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It is.

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What are your thoughts?

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thoughts?

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Oh, absolutely.

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'cause you're living two or three lives, right?

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There was the business kin, then there was the spiritual kin, then there's

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the personal kin, then there's the, you know, friend, friendship kin.

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And you know, it's kind of hard to keep all those lives in order, right?

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Because you're, you're having to show up one way in the business and

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then you're having to show up one way at church and then you're showing

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up one way in your neighborhood.

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You're showing up these different ways, and that's not

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what God's calling us to do.

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He's saying, Hey, there's one you.

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Right.

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That's why I love that Ephesians two 10 passage, you're god's workmanship.

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So the spiritual can can be just as spiritual at work

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as he is at church, right?

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And the work can be just as good at church as he was in, in the work world,

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or with my friends and my neighbors.

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And when I don't have to compartmentalize any longer, when I don't have to try

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to figure out who I am, and I can just be the who that God's called me

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to be, man, then it's all of a sudden my energy gets elevated, my passions

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get ignited, my vision gets clearer.

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That was my story.

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What happened to me and what's what I've worked with business

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leaders for now the last 20 years.

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What's happened to them as well, right?

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All of a sudden, their confidence goes up, their vision gets better.

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Their, passions get stronger, their convictions get deeper, and

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it's just an amazing experience that begins to take place.

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Right.

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you bring up often that you learned lessons from your father

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and that he had a big impact.

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tell me more about that.

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Tell me more about some of the lessons you learned from the father, where'd you grow

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up, and just some things about, you know,

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Ken, the early years is the way I like to word

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So one of the things about who, so if you go on my LinkedIn page,

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I have a, instead of what I do, I have a little bit of who I am.

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And, I tell a story of when I was 10 years old, my father was an alcoholic

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and was the oldest of six children.

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And his father, my grandfather was killed when my dad was 15 years old.

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And so my dad quit school, high school back in the 1950s, went to

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work to provide for the family.

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And so he became a surrogate father for his brothers and sisters.

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So he had a pretty rough journey throughout his life.

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And in the middle of that journey, he came to know Jesus as his personal savior.

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And so the story I tell on, on, when I tell people about who I am is that

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when my dad, when I was 10 years old, I saw my dad take two things to work.

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He eventually went to work at a Christian company.

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after he got fired for his alcoholism, got started to have a transformational

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experience, and his sponsor actually worked for a Christian company and

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got my dad hired on the night shift, to go work at this clay refining

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factory outside of San Louis, Missouri.

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Christie Mineral, still a great company, great Christian company,

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and, but that they had every reason not to hire my dad, right?

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he brought nothing, didn't have a high school education.

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Here's an alcoholic, you know, all the, all these kinds of things.

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And yet they showed grace and gave a guy a second chance, and

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it changed his life forever.

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And it changed my life forever.

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But he'd always take two things to work every day.

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He'd take his hard hat and he would take his Bible.

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And so the hard hat I understood, it's like you're going to a rec

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factory, you know, it's dangerous.

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You gotta have your hard hat on.

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It's part of safety protocols and all those kinds of things.

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But I was like, you know, and we didn't grow up in church at the

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time, so I was like, dad, why are you taking your Bible to work?

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That didn't make any sense.

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And he said, son, I read it during my breaks because it makes me better.

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And I say, if you know that story, you know, the two things that

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really have evolved in my life.

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I believe in business.

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I believe in hard work.

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I believe in understanding how business works.

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And I also believe in the spiritual side that the Bible makes us better.

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And so, that's really about who I am.

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And that's one of the lessons that my, father, taught me.

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obviously I, he believed in self-improvement and continuing to

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improve himself, and he continued to do so all throughout his life.

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Eventually overcame alcoholism, became a leader in one of our churches.

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actually went on to preach some sermons and, and do some great

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work in that aspect as well.

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never had a drink again when he started at, Christie Minerals.

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So he spent the last 35 years of his life sober and, overcoming a difficulty

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or a demon that was hard to overcome.

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And, but yet that's self-improvement.

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So I was the first in my family to go to college, and then I went on

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and get a, went on to get my master's degrees and so on and so forth.

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So my father, I say, if I could become half the man that he was,

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then I, then I'm doing okay.

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And, that's really what I strive to be and who I strive to be a model after.

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You mentioned, I guess the addiction and things like that, but also there's a

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work ethic that people from, we call it a Midwest work ethic or something like that.

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So you probably had that You mentioned that business is your thing,

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but was there an entrepreneurial or business owner, or

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what was the seed that led you to eventually work with

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not just regular businesses, but CEOs of larger companies and all that?

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Did you see that early on in life, or did that develop later?

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Well, the entrepreneurial seed was early on, I believe, back to

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the Ephesians, two 10 workmanship.

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So there was an entrepreneurial seed that was planted in me.

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I, started my own businesses in high school, you know, in college and, had,

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you know, moderate success on those lines.

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thanks to my father though.

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And the idea of mentorship and personal development and leadership, I was also

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very much attracted to, men that had men and women that had businesses.

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And so I would often ask them about their business.

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And so from even, you know, an early age in teenage years, I got to know several

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business owners and business leaders and began to understand the value of business.

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And that really is where kind of that got started.

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So I didn't know that I was gonna work with, business owners and CEOs.

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my goal originally was just to build a good business and to,

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you know, get outta poverty and kind of, develop, decent living.

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And then God began to reveal to me that it's not just about you, right?

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It's sometimes it's about who you mentor, who you help.

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And there was a lot of great mentors that I had along the way.

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So God challenged me to take another step than to surround

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myself and to kind of work together.

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With groups of CEOs or business owners to help them to grow their business.

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So it's been a story along the way.

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And you know, that's, that's all back to that first principle that I talk about,

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just always taking the next step, right?

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So I took one step and God revealed another opportunity,

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and then I took another step and then revealed another one.

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and that led us to where we are today,

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That kind of fits in with our,

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part of our title, the Leadership Journey.

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That's just the journey that we're all on.

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Did I see somewhere that you did some work with Dale Carnegie and that?

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Tell me more about that.

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'cause that was a impactful book for me and probably

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probably

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a ton of people.

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And so what'd you do with them?

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Yeah, so my father had a couple books that he encouraged me to read

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because he had a hard time learning and growing and reading, but he

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had gotten hold of some books, that he thought was really important.

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one of those books was Dale Carnegie's, how to Win Friends.

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And influenced people.

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Dale Carnegie, many people don't know, was from Missouri and had a big vision

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and a dream to go be an actor in New York.

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So he left Missouri, went to New York, but his acting failed.

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But in that process, he learned self-improvement, self-help, and

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that's where the, how the Wind friends and influence people came to be.

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my dad encouraged me to read Booker t Washington's book called Up From

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Slavery, which is a tremendous book.

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And then PT Barnum's book that was actually written back in the 1870s called,

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40 Years of Struggles and Triumphs.

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And so those were three books that were on my dad's bookshelf that he encouraged me.

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So as I started to grow in my, education, I also wanted to

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grow in my skills and attitudes.

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And so I read the book How to Win Friends and Influence People, but

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I was able to make friends with, A business owner that owned one of

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the Dale Carnegie franchises, there.

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And so, that led to me going through the courses that Dale Carnegie had,

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and then eventually going to work for Dale Carnegie becoming a master

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trainer for them, so that I could train on all their courses as well.

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So that was a great experience because just those principles, are, and

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again, Dale Carnegie was a Christian.

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They were rooted and grounded in scripture, but they're common sense

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principles that everybody could, practice.

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So I still talk about the, Dale Carnegie principles.

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I'll tell you this real quick story.

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So when I went to work with Dale Carnegie, I was a big fan, But

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the first day that I was there, they handed us a 12 page script.

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they said, your first week on the job, your job is to memorize

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the script word for word.

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at the end of the week, you're gonna give a presentation and you're

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gonna say that script for memory.

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And if you don't, you won't be here the next week.

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that was their onboarding process, I thought, I can go memorize 12 pages.

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I've never memorized 12 pages before, but if that's what I've gotta do and I've

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got a week to do it, I'm gonna do it.

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You know?

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so anyway, we get up to the end to get to the end of that week.

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it's all about Dale Carnegie and his background.

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It's about the 30 human relations principles.

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It's about, what business owners needed to understand to grow

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their teams and grow themselves.

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And it's just a wonderful, script.

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I mean, they'd spent years working on it.

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Dale Carnegie, by the way, is the largest training organization in the world.

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It's been in existence almost a hundred years.

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Trains all around the world, so they know what they're doing, And, so we get to the

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end of the week and there's five of us.

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Well, only two of us went through the entire script.

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The other guys, they would mess up here or there.

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They just didn't memorize it.

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And they were polite about it, but they just said, thank you for attempting,

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and, we're not gonna be continuing on.

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So the two of us, they got done and they said, welcome to the Dale

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Carnegie team, and, here's your office and we're gonna get you trained

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on what's next, and go on to that.

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And then they said something really interesting, which

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I thought was very funny.

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They said, now we know that you spent an entire week memorizing that script,

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and we're proud of you for doing so.

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Now, here's the secret.

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You'll probably never say those 12 pages again.

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Direct word for word ever again, for as long as you work for

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the Dale Carnegie Organization.

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But for as long as you live, you'll remember parts of this script from now on.

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And they will help you wherever you go and whatever you do.

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And I could still quote you parts that script though, that was,

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almost 30 years ago, but I could almost quote you, word for word for

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some of the script that's there.

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I became a master trainer for Dale Carnegie could train on their

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leadership courses and sales courses and then, work to grow, companies

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using the Dale Carnegie program.

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I, I'm a firm believer that along the way we do things that we don't

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truly understand the impact they'll have till many years later.

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I just was thinking about that book,

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how to Win Friends and Influence People.

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We're gonna put a link down in the notes, because I believe there's

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possibly an entire generation that

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needs to grab that book and read it.

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I think it's still popular.

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I know it is.

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I still see it out there.

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However, I'm not sure it is to the level it needs to be.

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And to do agree, like you said earlier,

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there were Christian principles, biblical principles throughout, but

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I'm not sure that he called them that.

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not like you do in your book Well done.

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Where you basically, you will say that they're biblical principles, but

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Mm-hmm.

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What are you still using daily that you can trace back to

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that time with Dale Carnegie?

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Carnegie?

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Well, the principles, I think the principles are evergreen.

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They're everlasting.

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And that was actually one of the inspirations that I had

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when I went to write my book.

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'cause we talk about 12 principles.

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I didn't talk about 30 human relations principles, but the

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principles serve as arbiters.

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They serve as, compasses to help us to make our decisions.

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So like principle number one.

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Is never criticize, condemn, or complain.

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Right?

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And Dale Carne would say, never criticize, condemn, or complain.

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Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain.

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And most fools do.

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We would describe that, right?

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another principle is praise the slightest improvement if

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you want it repeated, right?

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So these principles that are profound, we know that they work.

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And they work in every generation.

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They worked a hundred years ago.

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They'll work today, they'll work a hundred years from now in business.

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That's what made, Dale Carnegie, how to Win Friends and Influence

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People book So Profound.

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I actually like his second book even better than that.

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It's How To Stop Worrying and Start Living, which is a profound book to, and

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he does talk a little bit more about his faith in that book because, the Bible

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talks about how to overcome anxiety and he references some of those things.

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But what Dale Carney that experience, what it did for me is it made me consider

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and think about the principles that should guide every decision that you're

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making in relation to somebody else.

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Right.

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should I consider, should I condemn them or should I praise them or,

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whatever the other principles might that might apply at that particular time.

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Right.

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And the question I had to really wrestle with for, almost, five or six years was

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what were the principles that should guide every Christian business person

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as they make decisions in their business

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In Dale Carnegie's case, it was, if you make decisions according

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to these principles, you're gonna have better relationships.

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So in my philosophy, it was what were those principles that

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if you made decisions by these principles, you would have more of

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a kingdom impact for your business.

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And that's where then I began, a search reading other, Christian

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CEOs, back into the 18 hundreds, but also, in the 19 hundreds as well.

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But any book that I could find that was written by a Christian CEO that talked

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about the principles that helped guide them, make decisions, and, guys like

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JC Penney, who started his store in 1902 out in Wyoming called the Golden

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Rule Store and became the largest department store in America, right?

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still in existence today, 120 some years later.

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Or true Kathy, who has built, Chick-fil-A and I could go on and on.

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There's, I reference over, 200 books in my book.

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Well done.

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And that's because I want to show that these principles

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worked, worked, in the past.

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They worked today.

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They'll work in the future, and they work in small businesses.

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They work in large businesses.

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they worked 200 years ago.

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They worked today.

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They'll work 200 years from now.

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It's principles that can guide your thinking as you try to

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build your business to honor God.

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Right.

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Yeah, they're

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definitely timeless.

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Principles

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and,

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I want to, we're going to,

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we're going to,

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we're gonna do a deep dive in just a few minutes on the term well done, because

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I think it's good to understand that.

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But there are a few terms that you use that I want us to define

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and talk about a little bit more,

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bit more,

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because I think sometimes in the business world, I remember funny, when I went

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first, went to work at Bell South,

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they had all these acronyms and terms, and they literally had it all in a book.

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And I said, it sounds like you're speaking a different language.

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And I think at times we can do that

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as Christians, as Christian business owners, et cetera.

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And I, I kinda like to pick apart some of these terms.

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So

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the first term that I wanna

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discuss is kingdom driven.

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And I think we used the term kingdom driven leader, kingdom driven, CEO.

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Tell me more about what that means to you and I, and we may go back and forth

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on this 'cause I love the word kingdom,

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but I'm concerned at times when we use it, people don't know exactly what that

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what that means.

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Absolutely.

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And actually in my book, I have a glossary of different terms because

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to your point, sometimes these terms can be, as I define them, or what I

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would challenge leaders to think about, because, you know, sometimes it can mean

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different things to different people.

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When I talk about a kingdom driven leader, what I'm talking about is somebody

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that really wants to make a difference for the kingdom of God, that they

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have it in their heart and their mind.

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That it's not just about.

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Themselves or their business, that they recognize that part of their

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success in life is partnering with God, welcoming God into the conversation

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of their life, and that they want to do something, that God would look at

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them and say, the words well done.

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I'm proud of what you've done.

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You've done something for my kingdom as much as you've done it for yourself.

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And so that's how I define Kingdom Driven leader.

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I love, there's a book that's popular right now in a lot of Christian service

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called Faith Driven Leader, and I had that word kingdom driven long before

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faith driven leader ever came out.

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But, I think there's a distinct difference.

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I don't call it this in the book 'cause Faith Driven was written after my book

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was released, but, faith-driven leader just basically means that, you want to

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incorporate your faith into your business.

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I think that's okay.

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And that's definitely a first step along the process, right?

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But a kingdom leader, kingdom driven leader says, yeah, I'm

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already taking that for granted.

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I'm a Christian, so my faith is really critical to who I am.

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And it's critical to the identity, but it's not good enough.

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And let me give you one example of this real quick 'cause I wanna illustrate this.

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So I went to talk with A-C-C-E-O years ago.

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He called me up and he said, Hey Ken, I'd love to talk to you.

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I understand you're working with Christian CEOs.

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I said, yes, I am.

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He said, I'd love to find out more.

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So I go in and talk to him.

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He tells me he's a third generation business owner.

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His grandfather had started the business, right?

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His father then read it.

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Then they had a president that became there.

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And then he ended up taking it a few years ago.

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in the DNA of that business.

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They had that faith was important to them.

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one of our core values is faith.

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Faith, family, you know, it's, it's really critical to who we are.

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And so they weren't shy about their faith necessarily.

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so they had moments where they shared their faith with it.

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he says to me in the meeting, we talk a little bit and he said, Hey, you know,

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our company's been in existence 80 years.

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We've been a good faith driven company.

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We've been, you know, we try to, you know, testify and we try to show

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people that, you know, our values and, and all these kinds of things.

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and so he asked me the question actually.

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He said, so why would I want to be a part of what you're doing?

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He said, aren't I doing enough?

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And I said to him, well, I'm proud of what you've done, and I'm proud

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of where your company has been.

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But let me ask you a question.

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I said, so you've been in the bus business 80 years?

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And he said, yeah.

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And I said, and you've had hundreds of thousands of employees throughout

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the 80 years of your existence.

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He said, yeah, we have absolutely.

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And I said, well, how many of those employees have ever come to know, have a

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personal relationship with Jesus Christ?

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And he said, what?

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And I said, well, if you've been in business 80 years and you've been

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talking about your faith and you've been doing all these great things

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for God's kingdom, then don't you think you should have some results?

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Like when you get to heaven, you know, God's not gonna say, oh, great job.

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You've been in business 80 years.

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But where's the results?

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Don't you think that in the parable of the talents, when the

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leader went away, he didn't just come back and say, oh, good job.

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you told everybody, you were a good servant.

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he said, how many talents did I give you?

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And how many talents did you deliver?

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And not that it's all results oriented.

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Sometimes it's about obedience.

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But what I suggest to business owners and business leaders is we

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ought to have something to show that we're impacting the kingdom of God.

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you care about if your bank account's impacted, you're

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looking at profitability, right?

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You're looking at products.

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You care if your products are being used.

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You care if there's results there.

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So why in the world have we bought off on this philosophy as Christian

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leaders and CEOs that we can just give lip service to God without

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any results and think it's okay?

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Well, needless to say he was convicted.

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He said, again, I'm all in.

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I'm ready to go.

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And so one of the things we did just to end that story, I said, well,

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let's talk about your first result.

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What do you want your first result to be?

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And he said, well, you challenged me to have somebody come to

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know Christ through our company.

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And so, you know, maybe my first step should be that I want one of my

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employees to come this year to ask me about my faith and so that I could

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lead them to a personal relationship.

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I said, well done.

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I said, what a goal, what a vision.

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Now I believe in supersizing goals.

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So I said, how about instead of one, we put three, right?

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Three of your employees in the first 12 months that you're here,

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let's strategically go after these results for God's kingdom.

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That's a kingdom driven company.

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That's a kingdom driven C. Well, let's end up happening.

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And sure enough, at the end of the first year, he kept

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calling me throughout the year.

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He is like, Ken, guess what?

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I said, what?

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He said, I just had a guy come in and ask me about my faith for the very first time.

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I said, well done.

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I said, that's fantastic.

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So we get to the end of the year.

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Sure enough, the third guy comes.

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He said he wants to, and this CEO was able to lead him on

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his part of a faith journey.

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Matter of fact, he started going to church with the CEO, right?

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The business owner, which was, was just profound.

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And so he calls me up and says, Ken, I get it.

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I did it.

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I got number three, I got number three.

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I said, fantastic.

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Great.

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Now we need to start thinking about next year.

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I said, you know, the only regret I have is instead of three, we should

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have said five, or we should've said 10.

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Right.

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Because we could have done so much more.

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Right.

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And, he laughed at that.

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And of course, we've been continuing to set up bigger goals

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and doing more and more things.

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And I could tell you stories, stories, if we had the time, today's, like we were

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talking about where I could tell you a story after story of somebody that was

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in business for 20 years or 30 years or 40 years, that they were faith driven.

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They, they gave lip service, but they weren't kingdom driven.

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They weren't results oriented to bring about the results that they needed for

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their company or for God's kingdom.

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So that's, a long story

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no, it's good.

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It's, it's good because it leads to the next thing I wanted to address,

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which is this issue of results, which to me, I think is related to impact.

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You used the word impact quite a, quite a bit.

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Interestingly enough, just last week,

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we had a.

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conversation with Justin Eklund who had written a book Brand for Impact.

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And it was a lot of the same topics we're talking about here, but

Speaker: 00:31:44

specifically related to marketing and branding, which was really kind of cool.

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And how for-profit and non-profit businesses can create brand.

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And so if, if someone's listening in here, this is gonna be a great

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conversation to match up with that one.

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But

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let's talk about results and impact, because many people, I wouldn't say

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all, but most people I think that go into business, there are ways to measure

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measure

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results and then also that leads into impact.

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And we use words like growth and scale and how many employees do we have and

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what is our year over year growth and EBITDA and all these things that we use.

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How

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How

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should CEOs.

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That are kingdom driven, kingdom impacting CEOs, how should they be

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considering results and thinking about the numbers and KPIs and things like

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that?

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things like that?

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Mm-hmm.

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I say it's the same thing as everything else in business.

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So, here's one of the things that I think is unique about

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CEO experience and what we do.

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So when I went to business school, people that go through their MBA

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program are usually trained in six key areas of business, right?

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Strategy and vision, accounting and finance, sales and marketing, operational

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excellence, customer competitive advantage, and human resources.

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So your MBA programs are built on those six things.

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As you learn in school, or if you don't have your MBA program, any business

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owner will know that you can develop metrics, KPIs on all six of those things.

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So what is our strategic plan?

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Do we have it written?

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do we have it marked out?

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What's our top priorities that we're trying to accomplish?

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What's our accounting and finance metric?

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What's our ebitda?

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What's our, net gross margin?

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what's our profitability?

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what's our cost, to our products and service?

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You know, what's our, customer service?

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What's our NPR or net promoter score?

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how do our customers re relate us?

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How do we have referrals and so on and so forth.

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So there's numbers to each one of those key areas.

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Now, what I found is that that was still lacking, and for most businesses

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that I had experienced, or I had been myself, there's actually three more that

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I think aren't talked about in business schools or businesses that need to be.

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One is personal leadership, right?

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That goes back to Ephesians two 10, where we're at.

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God, a lot of times will grow a company by growing a leader.

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Enron was one of the greatest companies, you know, from a profitability

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standpoint, they weren't brought down because of their bad human resources.

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They weren't brought down because of a bad customer experience or bad operations.

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They were brought down because of lack of integrity of a couple key

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individuals in the organizations that didn't have personal responsibility

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or develop as a personal leader.

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I separate, human resources out from team culture and development.

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I noticed as Jesus started in the very first thing that he did when he.

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Started his ministry was, he called his disciples.

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So could you call that human resources?

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Yes.

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But really what he was doing was he's developing his team

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and he's building a culture.

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The great Peter Drucker said that, culture will eat strategy for lunch.

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So having the idea of culture and team culture and how do we develop our team

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and an organization, and even for small businesses, that team culture can bleed

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over into your, vendor relationships.

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It can blend over to subcontractors, all these types of things.

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But too few leaders really think about the cultures that

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they're really trying to build.

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And I think that we can have a kingdom culture now.

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I think kingdom principles and biblical business principles can,

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can be in every one of those aspects.

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So like principle number one, taking the second step, that's just

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not a customer service principle.

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That's an accounting principle.

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that's a strategy and vision principle.

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That's a sales and marketing principle.

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You know, that goes into every aspect of your business.

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But here's what I do.

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I elevate the ninth area, which I actually, it's number seven on my list.

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It's no number nine, but I'll say it's number nine today is

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what I call kingdom impact.

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So kingdom impact is just as important as accounting and finance.

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It's just as important as human resources.

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there's a Christian organization out there today that works with CEOs and

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business owners, and they have the mantra or the statement, no margin, no mission.

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So basically what they're communicating to Christian business owners is that if

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you're not successful in your business, that you can't have a kingdom impact.

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You've gotta have success as a business in order to do

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something for the kingdom of God.

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I think it's just the opposite.

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I think if you don't start out your business with kingdom impact.

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So, you know, the reality is most businesses aren't profitable in the first

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three years that they're in business.

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Right?

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We gotta get up, but you ought to be kingdom impacting on day one if I don't go

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out there and elevate my kingdom impact.

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And you know what?

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Sometimes God uses the best kingdom impact when I don't have much, right?

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And he shows us that in the Bible over and over again.

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Daniel had his greatest impact when he is in the lions den, not when

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he is sitting up in the palace.

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Noah's got his greatest impact when he is in the ark, or he is

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building the ark when he has nothing.

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You know, he has nothing left and nobody, but he's doing something for God, even

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when it doesn't seem to be necessarily profitable from the world's perspective.

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Moses, I mean, I could go leader after leader after leader on this.

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So what I would say is you need to have a metric, you need to have

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a performance result that you're driving for in your kingdom impact.

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I'll give you another example, right?

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So I had a business in Washington DC that, he came to me and he said, Hey Ken,

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I've been in this business for 30 years.

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I'm the only Christian in the business.

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I don't know anybody else, but I hear you work with Christian leaders

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and I wanna sell my business in a few years, and it's in a bad shape.

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I don't have a lot of money.

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I put everything in the past 30 years into the business, but you know, I

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wanna do it, I wanna finish well, and I wanna do it the way that God would

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have me to do it, whatever that means.

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And I said, okay, let's go on that journey together.

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And so, yes, we built, we begin to build his business, right?

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But I told him that just what I told you, I said, your kingdom

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impact needs to be important.

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I said, you've been in business for 30 years.

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What have you done for the kingdom of God?

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What results do you have?

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And he said, Ken, I haven't done anything for the kingdom of God.

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And I said, well, let's change that, right?

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whether you sell your business or not, that you know, that's important,

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don't get me wrong, but what God says to you eternity for eternity,

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that's gonna be more important than how much you sold your business for.

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And so I challenged him to pray about it and think about it.

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I said, let's develop a number and a result.

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And so a few days later, he calls me up and he says, Ken, I got it.

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I got it.

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And I said, what?

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And he said, here's what I wanna do.

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He said, I've got this beautiful showroom, Washington, dc it was

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a finishing type of a business.

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He said, I've got this beautiful showroom.

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He said, I think I oughta give Bibles away in my showroom.

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He said, there's a pop.

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There's a lot of people that come through my showroom, you

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know, all throughout the day.

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And so maybe I should put some Bibles out and I can track that.

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I can track how many Bibles that I gave away.

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I said, fantastic.

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I said, welcome to Kingdom Impact.

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You've created a number that you can track, that you can now, you

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know, tell people here's part of what you're doing for the kingdom.

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The kingdom of God, right?

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And so he finish that story.

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So he goes out, I said, when are you gonna go get the Bibles?

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'cause you know accountability's important right along on this journey.

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And he said, well, I'll go out during lunchtime.

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I said, where are you gonna get 'em from?

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He said, there's a Christian bookstore not too far down the street.

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So he goes down, he didn't tell me how many Bibles he's gonna give, but we

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didn't have that kind of a conversation.

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I probably should have gone deeper with him.

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But anyway, he goes down the street, picks up five Schofield

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study Bibles, these big gigantic.

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He goes into the Christian bookstore, he says, tell me the best Bible you have.

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They point him to this go field study Bible, nice leather, you know, the whole

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thing, like $75 a piece, whatever, right?

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He says, how many you have?

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They said five.

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He buys all five, right?

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Brings it back to his showroom, puts 'em down on the table, gets a piece

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of paper with permanent marker, writes on top of the permanent mark

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or free Bible, sticks it on top of the Bibles and walks back to his office.

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He calls me, he said, can I just did it?

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And I said, fantastic.

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And he said, it's okay.

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You know, and he's, he's, you know, he's being honest.

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He's like, Hey, you know, if I give away one Bible, that's more than I've

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done in 30 years of business, right?

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And that's okay.

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That's a number I can track, right?

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I said, just wait.

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I said, you'll never know what God's gonna do.

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Principle number seven, by the way, is believe in asking the impossible.

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Start believing that God can do something in your life that you don't believe

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that you can do on your own, and you'll welcome where God into your life, right?

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So anyway, he waits about 30 minutes, walks back out into the showroom,

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and all five Bibles are gone.

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But the piece of paper's still on the table, right?

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And he looks at his guy that's in the showroom.

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He said, Hey, where'd those bibles go?

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And the guy says, his name is Ju, he says, geo says, I don't, I don't know.

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I didn't take 'em.

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You know, he thought he was being accused of doing something.

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He said, man, I was working the showroom.

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I don't know where, I don't know where they went.

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I guess the customers took 'em, or the, you know, the employee

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took em or whatever it was.

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And, so he, anyway, he, he goes back into his office and he calls

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me, he says, Ken, guess what?

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I said, what?

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He said, all five Bibles are gone.

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I said, I said, congratulations, well done.

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I said, can you imagine?

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I said, you gave away five bibles in a matter of 30 minutes, and after 30 years

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you finally did something for the kid.

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Oh, that was an indictment.

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That was an encouragement.

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Right.

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That was, Hey, wow, you just, you just stepped into something

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different and now you can track it.

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Well, today he's given away over 3000 Bibles out of that showroom.

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And so he had regular Bible.

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Now, he didn't go get Schofield study Bibles, but you know, he had, he has

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a stack of Bibles in that showroom.

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And then he waited about a few months and he said, Hey, you know what, I've got

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some people that English isn't their first language in Washington DC so I probably

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need some Spanish Bibles in the showroom.

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And then he thought about it a few months later and he said, Hey, I

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need to have some kids' Bibles.

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'cause probably some of the people that come in, they have children and

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we can, and so he can track each one of those metrics now that he can see

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how many Bibles a year he's giving away, how many Bibles are impacting.

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And I could tell you story after story after that.

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And I tell him that's one of, and he would even tell me, he said, that's one of the

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most important numbers in my business now.

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It is not about the number of sales we have.

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It's not, I mean, those numbers are important too.

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Those are critical numbers.

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The bank wants to see those numbers, you know, those are critical.

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But I said, and he knows, he says, but God wants to see this number.

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And so we treat it equally.

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We treat it as the same as all these other areas of your business.

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that's phenomenal.

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And you know, the cool thing is, is that

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he probably had some of his employees that were picking up those Bibles, you

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know, that he had never had communications with, and so it opens up the door to

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have some of those communications.

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The reason I love what you're saying is it's.

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I believe he was probably having impact on the kingdom.

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There was just no measurement.

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he wasn't sure.

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He didn't know, and he questioned it.

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and I do think a lot of leaders in business have this thought

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that the pastor down at the local church, he's doing things, but

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I'm just out here doing business.

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And you mentioned it earlier, sometimes even the preachers will say,

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you go out and make money and just send us a check.

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I don't like that mindset, by the way.

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I, I think that the marketplace in many ways is a much more fruitful,

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fruitful area than some of our churches.

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I, I was saved in a business setting

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because my personality was probably that I was never gonna probably

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go into a church setting much.

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So

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we could go into that.

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You use the term

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well done often.

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And I've got your book right here.

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Well done.

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So before we go into the book and a few things here before we, finish up,

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tell me,

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tell me about the term well done.

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Well done.

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Yeah, so well done was the, you know, when I read that business parable

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about the, the leader that goes away and he leaves the servant and then

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he comes back and he says, well done, good and faithful servant, you know,

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enter into your master's happiness.

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Right?

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And, you know, the well done resonated deep within my spirit and was like,

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that's, that's what life is all about.

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That's really what I want to hear.

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I want people to tell me, Hey, that's a good product.

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You did a good job.

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That's a good company you've built, you know, it's built on integrity, all

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these different types of things, but I also want to hear it in eternity, right?

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And so when I began to really understand that, and then when I'd

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start talking to other business owners and I said, Hey, what are you really

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trying to accomplish in your world?

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And what do you, what's the most significant thing to you?

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And what I found was almost every single business owner that I

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talked to over a period, like I said, about five or six years.

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Every one of them said the exact same thing.

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They said, well done.

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I want to hear the words.

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Well done.

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And so, you know, that's really, I call it a well done mission.

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That what that means, those are the two words I said.

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Life is too short.

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Business is too hard, and eternity's too long not to hear the words well done all

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throughout this life and for all eternity.

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And so we're on a well done mission to build great businesses.

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We wanna do that.

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Build great products, build great services, build a great life, Have

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our children love us, have our families really appreciate us.

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Connect to that, but also have an impact on the kingdom of God.

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And well done to me signifies not just in one area, but all those

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critical areas being successful.

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And I think that's the well done mission.

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And so that's why I use those words and, and that's really

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what well done really means.

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We talk about these 12 biblical business principles, but

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they're life principles as well.

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They're spiritual principles as well.

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They'll help you make every decision from this point forward.

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If you read the book and you go through the, and I didn't create

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the principles, I've just kind of elevated them and highlighted them,

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and like you mentioned, I mentioned specifically where they come from.

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But they will change every single decision you'll make from this point

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forward because you'll do it in a way that you'll wanna have breakthroughs

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in your business and in your life.

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I love the term, and I recall years ago, man, this was in a house

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that we had probably 25 years ago.

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My wife and I had this plaque or a picture that we had made.

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that basically you walked through our front door and I don't even

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know what happened to this picture.

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We.

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I've been through a lot of stuff.

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I live in an RV now, so I don't have a lot of wall space,

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but you know, we had it, it was something to the effect of that verse.

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It was, you know, our family motto.

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Our family goal is to hear the words well done and good and faithful servant.

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You know, when we are finished with this life, when we move on to the next realm.

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I, one of the things that's cool to me,

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12 biblical principles for leaders to grow their business with kingdom impact

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is, you have pulled this from the book of Matthew.

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I'm reading in Matthew right now.

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I spend a lot of time in Matthew

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and often I will listen to the Sermon on the Mount

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as an audible.

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It's about 15 minutes.

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It's a great quiet meditation for those that want a good tip there.

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tip there.

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Why Matthew?

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Why?

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Why did you choose Matthew?

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I know why I would and I love it, but why?

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the book of Matthew?

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of Matthew.

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Yeah.

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So really I found the principles all throughout the Bible, but I found

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that Matthew did the best job of articulating these 12 principles.

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And when I thought about it and started really analyzing, that

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made sense because Matthew was really the business guy, right?

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He was the accountant, he was the tax collector.

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He was the one that was really officially running a business.

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And so that's really why we resonated with Matthew and the way that he

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articulates, the 12 principles as he outlines them in his book.

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You.

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You know what's interesting about that?

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I was study, I'm doing a deep study right now on the timeframe between

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80 30 and up into the first century, you know, 80, 70,

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and I was doing some study on Irans who was a disciple of Polycarp,

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which was a disciple of John,

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and I had never thought of this.

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They said one of the things that the early church had to consider.

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With four gospels floating around

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was that there's some people that only wanted one and there was a popular

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one, and that at the time, Matthew

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Matthew

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was the most popular.

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Now

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it's sort of my most popular too.

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I actually, I love Luke, I love the timing of Luke and things like that.

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And

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yeah, mark and John that they, you know, John is like a whole different thing.

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But

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anyway, it's awesome.

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There's one principle that I wanna discuss a little bit more before we finish up,

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and to me it's foundational.

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I don't know if it's foundational to other CEOs, and I think you had it as fifth,

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and it is make the move from owner to overseer.

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And I like to use the word steward

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right?

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for my business, for my business, when I've been successful for my

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business, when I believe I have failed,

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failed,

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when

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I

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act like an owner.

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Things start unraveling.

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unraveling.

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But when I remember that I am just a caretaker, things just seem to go well.

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That's for me.

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How foundational is the ownership versus overseer as you word it?

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Here

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I'm looking on page 80.

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You can see I've got it highlighted.

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highlighted it here.

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Um,

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Well

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how, how critical, how critical to being,

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to hearing the words well done, is it

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to not be an owner and to be an overseer.

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to be an overseer?

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Right.

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It's actually the first kind of, the first real critical principle.

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We outlined the book kind of in three buckets, right?

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So four principles tied to proclamations that Jesus made, or statements

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that he made, like go the second mile, the second set of four, talk

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about parables that Jesus told.

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And so that principle comes out of the parable of the talents, right?

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That they didn't own it.

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They were just stewards of what the owner had given to them.

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And then the last four principles really talk about practices of Jesus and the

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way that he, did his, did his ministry.

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But that move from that, I own it all.

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It's my business that I created it, I designed it, it's all mine versus it's

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all god's and God's asking me to be a steward of it, I think is really critical.

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And again, I think we've done some damage, quite honestly, because

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we talk a lot about, in Christian circles about servant leadership.

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And servant leadership's really critical.

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Obviously it comes from Jesus serving his disciples and serving others, and Robert

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Greenleaf wrote a book, great book, back in the 1970s about servant leadership.

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But I believe what Jesus calls us to and what Matthew

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illustrates is steward leadership.

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And if you do steward leadership, that'll include servant leadership

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because now you extra, you understand it's not all about you.

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You're not the boss, you're not the one that owns everything.

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You're a steward of what God has given to you.

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I'm actually getting ready to release this year, later this year, another book

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called The First CEO, and the first CEO is about seven choices that'll either

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break or break through your business.

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And I talk about Adam and Eve in the garden.

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As the first CEO.

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They were the first business owners.

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They had a little landscape business.

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they had a little petting zoo that they were in charge of, right?

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But what's interesting about that model that Jesus later illustrates

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that Matthew talks about is Adam and Eve never owned the garden.

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It was God's garden, right?

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God is the one that developed it.

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He's the one that designed it.

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And until we wrestle with that and relate it to our business,

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I don't own CEO experience.

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I steward CEO experience.

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God owns it.

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if I wanted to continue it, I better have it as a steward.

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Because Ken's not always gonna be around, right?

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Adam and Eve's not gonna be around.

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Even Jesus himself wasn't gonna be around.

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Jesus treated his ministry as a stewardship.

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He started it.

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He was the founder.

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He created it, but he was ready to hand it over so that it could

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flourish in the next generation.

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And I find that this is really critical.

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So we really start there with every single leader because every one of us,

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in some ways, we have a responsibility gene or an ownership gene, where we feel

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like as owners, if it's gonna get done, I gotta do it right, or I need to take

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charge of this, or I need to make this decision, or I'm responsible for this, or

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I'm responsible for that, eventually that ownership mentality will break us down

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because it is gonna change our philosophy.

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I mean, and I could tell you story after story in the Bible and story

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after story in real life, right?

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where when, when the leader moved to ownership, it changed their behavior.

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When they moved to stewardship, it changes their eternity.

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Right.

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And so that's, that's why I love that principle of making, I call it making

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the move from owner to overseer.

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Because you're really making the move from, I'm not the owner of

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this business any longer, God is to now I'm a steward of it.

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And I just use the word overseer as a, make it for, from a sentence,

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a re reminder of a principle.

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Hey, I need the, I'm, am I owning this or am I overseeing it?

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Am I stewarding it?

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And I better, I better think in stewardship terms,

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it's a fundamental principle.

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it, it is absolute.

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And the way I keep myself in check.

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is that a steward, overseer, caretaker, trustee, there's a lot

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of words we could put in there,

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has a responsibility as a caretaker to return something in

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a better condition than when they

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received it.

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and if you think in that way, there is more of an eternal

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versus an owner, you're really

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sucking everything out for your benefit.

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I'm right now working with a client that we're talking about an exit

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and we're talking about what to do to build towards

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how we structure things.

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And this is a principle that's so important.

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I also love Ken, I appreciate you bringing up

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the servant leadership because I have seen servant.

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Leadership abused more than I have seen it working out well,

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especially in church circles,

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but it spilled over into the business world too,

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in that it just, it basically has been abused and people says,

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well, hey, you're here to serve,

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do this, don't do that.

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Whatever.

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and so

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I believe that that's fairly unhealthy.

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Tell me about, there's so many things we could talk about.

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You and I could go for hours, but

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tell me about CEO experience and what that looks like and give some information

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Yeah, so when God called me to make that transition into the, you know,

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working with Christian CEOs and business owners, I went as God as the owner of it.

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I wanted to see what the framework should be and what I found in the marketplace

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at the time was there was a lot of one trick ponies or one product types

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of organizations that they said, Hey, we'll work with the Christian business

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owner, but you know, they have to do executive coaching or they have to do.

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Round tables or forums or whatever it is that they might, or prayer groups

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or whatever it is that they want.

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And what I found was that Jesus actually taught his disciples,

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in seven different ways.

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And so part of our philosophy is we wanna start with the CEO rather than

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start with our products and services.

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And so Philippians four, two four says, consider others be, have the

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same attitude of Christ Jesus to consider others more than yourself.

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So our philosophy is a little bit like David and Nathan, that Nathan was part of

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David's circle, all of David's kingdom.

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So he was there during David's high points.

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He was there during David's low points, and then obviously he was

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there during the critical moments when David needed him to speak.

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And he was able to talk to David in such a way.

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So as I noticed these seven kind of models that Jesus established, what it does is

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it allows CEOs and business owners to stay with us for a long period of time.

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Maybe in different products or services, if you will.

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So we have executive coaching.

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so our goal is to help CEOs hear the words well done through hosting retreats.

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We use the word retreat, and the retreat serves as seven different

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ways that we can have retreats.

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So we have private retreats, which is our executive coaching model.

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We have peer retreats where we bring CEOs together in groups of 15 for mastermind

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purposes and to have a day to hear God's voice and to challenge each other and for

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accountability We have personnel retreats where we go on side and work with their

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team just as Jesus would give with this team in the upper room, or have moments

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in the garden or have time where he was deep diving deep in his, with his teams.

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We have perspective retreats where we help their more strategic vision and

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their once a quarter where we work with, companies or the CEO to develop vision

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for themselves and For their company.

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We have prayer retreats where we get together for spiritual purposes.

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We have a prayer team that prays over the needs of others, and that's a free

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retreat that we offer at no charge.

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Obviously, these other retreats have different price points, but what we find

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is as business owners go through life, all of a sudden, instead of just going

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on one product, they can stay with us.

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And our goal, one of our goals, is to work with a CEO for a lifetime.

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And because we want to help them to hear the words well done.

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And so we don't sign, have anybody sign any long-term contracts,

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any of those kinds of things.

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But somebody might start in a peer retreat as an example, and then all of a sudden

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they might go through a business sale like you're talking about, and maybe they sell

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their business and so they don't have a business any longer, but they still want

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that private executive coaching piece or maybe they're in a startup phase,

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they wanna restart another business.

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And so they want that.

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And then all of a sudden they bring a team along and they want the team to understand

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some values and some principles.

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So we talk business, we can train.

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With the team, we still train back.

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Like in my old world where I can talk about a business foundation,

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you'll notice the 12 principles.

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They're all really written in business language.

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They're not necessarily written in spiritual language.

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But what I do in the book is I'm not afraid to share the foundation of

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where those principles come from.

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you can find out more about our, we usually talk about three retreats

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as a place for people to start.

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You can find that on our website@atceoexperience.com.

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If you're interested in our peer retreats, which a lot of

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people start with that as well.

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We have another site called CEO retreat day.com.

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CEO retreat day.com.

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But that's a lot about what we do at CEO experience.

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We have other coaches that are using our products and services

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as well all over the country.

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So we're not a big organization right now.

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We have about 10, chief experience officers that lead

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those different retreats.

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and it's not necessarily just related to states because it's really around,

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related to Where their influences are and where people call us to go to.

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So I just got, back from the West coast, not too long ago 'cause I

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was hosting a retreat out there.

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I was, talking to a CEO earlier this week about a retreat that

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we're gonna be hosting up in Canada.

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So, you know, we kind of go in different places based on what

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the CEO needs and what's in the best interest of their business.

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Thanks for sharing that and we'll make sure we include the links

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and also the links for the book.

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Well done.

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That, is excellent.

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I'm sure people can get that on Amazon and everywhere.

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I think when I found out we were talking, I

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had my assistant say, Hey, can you get me a copy of a handful

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of days before the session?

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And I was able to get a real copy of it.

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I didn't even read this one on my Kindle, so well done with the book, by the way.

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Let me just tell you that Ken.

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Hey, one thing I want you to do right before we finish up here,

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let's assume we've got some leaders, small business CEOs, maybe even

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ministry leaders can, and they just need a word of encouragement.

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Let's just say that they.

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they

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Have listened in, they've heard all these great things that you've had to say, but

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give a word of encouragement for leaders out there that are attempting to impact

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the kingdom with what they're doing.

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with what they're doing.

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Oh, absolutely.

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you know, I know it can be hard at times, but the encouragement that

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I have is that you're not alone.

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That God has a big vision for you.

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God has a big, ability to do great things in your life and in your business.

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And my encouragement is just to try to draw close to him, to listen to his voice,

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and he'll lead you to the next step.

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And that next step can be one of the most significant steps in your life.

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one of the principles is know your yeses and nos.

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And I noticed that Peter said yes.

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And I love that story in the Bible, right?

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Where he's out just on a regular day fishing, doing his job, and

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all of a sudden it tells us that day he didn't catch any fish.

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And so he is on the seashore washing out his nuts.

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Can you imagine how frustrating that is?

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Right?

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the entire night out fishing, throwing those nuts in and out, in and out, in

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and out, nothing, nothing, nothing.

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Right?

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I'm sure he was ready to give up and he definitely wanted to probably get

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home and have breakfast that morning.

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And all of a sudden this guy comes along the seashore and he says, Hey,

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can I borrow your boat for a minute?

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Peter had every reason to say no to that guy.

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He had every reason to say no.

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I'm done.

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I just washed out my nuts.

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My wife's waiting for me.

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Breakfast is ready.

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I'm tired, I'm sleepy.

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And yet Jesus calls him to go a little bit further and Peter said, yes.

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He says, yeah, you can have my boat.

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He doesn't even ask how long the sermon's gonna be.

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he didn't say, are you a Pentecostal preacher or are you a Baptist preacher?

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He just says, Hey, you know, Jesus, if you need my boat, I know I'm

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gonna have to wash out my net again, but I just wanna say yes to you.

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Right?

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And he gets back into the boat, and then Jesus tells him to after he preaches his

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sermon, and he says, throw down the nets.

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And Peter says, well, you know, Jesus, now's not the right time.

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And Peter wasn't, he was wise.

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He'd been fishing for years.

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He knew what time the fish were biting.

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And yet Jesus says, throw it on your nets.

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And he doesn't.

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He just says, now's not the right time.

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Jesus doesn't even respond in that, which I just love.

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And probably just, Jesus looks at Peter with such eyes and such an intensity.

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And Peter says, okay, you know, I wanna say yes to you, Jesus.

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And so he throws down the nets, and of course the story is he catches the

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biggest catch that he's ever caught.

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So much so that his boat starts to sink.

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And then they get on the seashore that day and Jesus says, follow me.

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You know, I wanna make you fishers of fisher of men.

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And Peter said, yes.

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And so what I've learned in my life in difficult times and

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hard situations, it doesn't mean that it's not hard, it's real.

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That was a real hard story for, for Peter.

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He had to wash out his nuts.

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He had to take the boat back out.

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Obviously he got a big catch up that day.

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But that was still a lot of work to be done too.

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But I find a lot of encouragement if I just find my yes right and I say

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yes to Jesus, I think that's the most.

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So every day when I get up, and especially in difficult times, and I would encourage

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every business owner, just start saying yes, Jesus, you want me to do something?

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I'm gonna say yes to you.

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I'm gonna forget about the rest of the world and what they're

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telling me to do or not do.

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I want to hear your voice and I just wanna take it the next step to whatever

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you ask me to, and I know if I do that, I'll find my way through it.

Speaker: 01:02:21

That's so good.

Speaker: 01:02:22

Ken Gosnell.

Speaker: 01:02:23

Thank you.

Speaker: 01:02:24

It also shows how just one encounter.

Speaker: 01:02:27

With the son of God, with Jesus Christ can change

Speaker: 01:02:31

everything.

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So amen and hallelujah there.

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I appreciate,

Speaker: 01:02:35

Ken, you doing what you do.

Speaker: 01:02:36

I appreciate you working with the leaders that you're working with.

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I am.

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have no doubt that this having impact.

Speaker: 01:02:41

I appreciate you writing the book.

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Well done.

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Well done.

Speaker: 01:02:46

12 Biblical principles for Leaders to Grow their business with Kingdom

Speaker: 01:02:49

Impact.

Speaker: 01:02:51

Get a copy of that if you're listening in.

Speaker: 01:02:53

This has been a great conversation.

Speaker: 01:02:54

If you've been listening in here at Seek go Create.

Speaker: 01:02:56

We have new episodes every Monday.

Speaker: 01:02:58

just like this great conversation talking about how

Speaker: 01:03:03

we can make an impact.

Speaker: 01:03:05

So thank you for listening in.

Speaker: 01:03:07

Make sure you're liking and subscribing and commenting over on YouTube

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and all the places and we will see you next week on Seek Go create.