Discover Your True Potential with Troy Gramling: Leadership & Faith Insights

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when it comes to coaching, That's my heart.

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I'm a coach as a father.

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I'm a coach as a husband.

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I'm a coach as a pastor.

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I'm a coach as a friend.

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I think the hardest thing for anybody who comes to Potential Church is to

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continually be challenged, to not settle.

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nothing thrills me more than to see people embrace, something

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new to go to new places, take advantage of new opportunitiEs.

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Oh,

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How can embracing your God given potential transform not only your

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life, but also those around you?

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Join us on Seek, Go, Create the Leadership Journey as we welcome Pastor Troy

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Gramling, the leader of Potential Church.

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With a congregation of over 20, 000 members across the United States

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and Latin America, Pastor Troy has spent over two decades inspiring

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individuals to unlock their divine potential and make a significant impact.

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Today, he shares insights from his journey from his days as a college

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basketball player and coach to his innovative approaches in ministry.

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We'll also discuss his first book, Potential, the uncontainable power

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of God within you, and explore how faith be a transformative force

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in our lives and communities.

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Pastor Troy, welcome to Seek, Go, Create!

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It's an honor to be with you today.

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You know, one thing I always like to do is honor people with

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the title that they should have.

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Pastor Troy, Pastor Troy Grambling, Troy, what do you,

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what do you like to be called?

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Ah, well, what I like to be called?

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is Troy.

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That sounds, I didn't like the name growing up, but it's, it's

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kind of stuck with me for 56 years.

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56 years.

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Well, I'm a couple of years older than you, so you and I are going to have

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a good, uh, seasoned conversation.

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Mature conversation that for the for the folks in our age bracket, they'll relate

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to it for the folks younger They need to glean from the wisdom that we have

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yeah, that's what I try to tell My kids anyways.

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My kids too.

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My son had dinner with us last night And if he were listening in

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he'd sort of roll his eyes just a little bit with that statement.

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So

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Yes.

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Anyway, troy.

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Hey first question.

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Uh, let's just say you're out somewhere away from maybe your Your

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domain, you know, your, your people and someone asks you what you do.

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What's your typical answer when people ask you that?

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I would tell them that I get the opportunity to lead, to pastor, And to

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love on some pretty incredible folks.

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And when, when you bring up the word pastor to people that are

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outside, let's just call it church world or Christian circles and all.

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I mean, I would get it.

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A lot of other people listening would get it.

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But you bring up the word pastor to people outside of those worlds, what

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kind of responses do you get from people?

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I'm curious.

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it's kind of funny.

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more often than not, if they're outside, of that kind of world, I think

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I've never got a negative response.

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I've never had somebody roll their eyes.

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I can tell that they'll say that's good.

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but you can tell they really don't have a concept for what that means other than

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some kind of religious role, they, have experienced or seen to that kind of thing.

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And then just kind of move on, you know, from that.

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Standpoint, but I've never really had anybody respond in a, oh, you

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know, religion or just some kind of, now they might once I walked away

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, Yeah,

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but, in the moment, you know, they all tend to be, kind,

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but there's always a response.

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You know what I mean?

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Of some kind.

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you know, you have in that role, it's one of the few titles, I asked this question

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to start off almost every podcast episode now, 280 in and, you know, a lot of

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people in business world, a lot of people that are working on certain projects.

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It's like this long, you know, trying to describe what they do.

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can typically say pastor and most people have a connection right away and it may

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not be great, but it, but they, they know what you're talking about, right?

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Oh, Yeah, Well, you know, I get most often, I know the folks who

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are listening wouldn't know, but the ones who are watching because

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I have the tattoos and different things that people are surprised.

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So, a lot of times it'll open up an opportunity for a conversation because

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a lot of times they'll guess, you know, you must be I'm kind of tall.

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So they'll say you're an athlete or something to that effect.

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So it gives the opportunity to have a conversation.

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Yeah, I mean just let's kind of set the stage for those just listening

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in we are on youtube So if you're watching it, you get it, uh, but but

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um I think you look like you could be in like coldplay or something like that

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That's kind of the look that I have.

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I mean you're kind of tall you got the Tats on the arm, you got an

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athletic shirt on, blondish hair.

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I know you're down in South Florida and all that, but I, I would say that people

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go, huh, are you sure you're a pastor?

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Where's your collar?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Especially down here in South Florida because there's a big Catholic population.

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one of my first, uh, contradictions as I was reading through your book.

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And I've got a copy of the book here, Potential.

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And I want to say this right up front, we're going to be talking

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about a lot of stuff, but this book is one of the main topics.

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This is my copy and I just finished reading it.

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It's dog eared and all of that, but you are listening in, especially if you're

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watching this on YouTube, I'm going to give away this copy right here anyone

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that pops a comment and says something related to potential or something

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related to what we're talking about here.

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I will, at my expense, because I actually accidentally bought two copies and Troy

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hates that, I know, but I'm going to give you this copy if you put a comment down.

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So listen in and I'll give you more instructions later, but As I was

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reading this in the first paragraph, I see that you're from a little

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town in Arkansas called Paragould.

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that right?

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Paragould?

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some of those together?

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there's it actually was started by two different railroad

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guys, Paramore and Jay Gould.

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I think were their two names.

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Ah, that's good.

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So they combined it.

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Well, what's interesting is that I have driven through that town once.

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I think in like northeast Arkansas and, and knew a little bit about

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it, but I went to Bible school for a few years out in Colorado.

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And there was a guy named Lance.

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popped into Bible school about two weeks after up drugs, showed up at Bible school

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and Troy, he was from Perigold, Arkansas.

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That's my connection to Perigold.

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so so I'm sitting here, this is my contradiction, my dichotomy I've got going

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on, and I'm going to have you explain it.

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You got a guy that grew up in Northeast Arkansas, went to town

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Perigold, and it is small town.

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Kind of rural ish type thing.

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And now, I mean, I'm even looking at it.

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You've got the neon behind you and you're in South Florida.

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I mean, what's up with that?

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That's quite the contrast in culture, if you ask me.

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Yeah, it's an incredibly different contrast and a big

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change when we first moved here.

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Now we've been here for 24 years, but I really think it's

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the reason we ended up here.

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The reason we left is the church, we had planted the church there in that little

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town And you know, you have the, vision and I had never seen a church plant.

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I mean, I had no idea how to do it.

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This is before books and conferences, you know, the only time another church

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started this, if people got mad.

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So, you know, to kind of go out and do this, and we started it and

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you got the vision, you build, you grow, you see people come to Christ.

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And I got that point where I just couldn't see the future.

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You know, that I had never experienced that in all my life where it's

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like, Hey, here's where we're going.

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And then exciting.

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And, and we just wanted to be where stuff was happening.

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And I'm not talking about just in the church, I just mean traffic,

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even, you know, just anything

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So I really think that contrast in cultures is really

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got a lot to do with how florida.

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And the, the cool thing about that, and this is interesting, my wife

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and I grew up in the Atlanta area.

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we kind of grew up small town, but Atlanta swallowed it up during the

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seventies while we were growing up there.

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now we're traveling.

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We've been traveling for 10 plus years now, and we're in an RV, and

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we find ourselves gravitating now to smaller towns, smaller areas.

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We're just outside of Rapid City right now, and it's like 80, 000 people.

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and there's great things about all places all over the world, I think I'd

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love to kind contrast is give me some really cool things about small town

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and maybe some challenges and then some really cool things about maybe

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the bigger city and some challenges.

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And uh, and I think that'll lead into, because I, I think

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that ties into potential.

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See there are a lot of people that they believe they need to be in the big city

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and they may, But then there are a lot of people that they really want to,

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they want to go smaller, and they may.

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talk about contract, talk about pros and cons of Paragold, small town,

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pros and cons of big city, especially now that you've experienced both.

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Yeah, I think that one of the You know, you get to know more people because

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they tend to stay there longer, you know, and generationally often, folks

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whose grandkids, are still, there, I just think there's a big relational

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aspect of it and I think that's a really positive, part of growing up in a small

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town, because not only relationally in the sense that you know people,

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but when you try to get stuff done, there's a greater concern because they

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may know your cousin or they, you know, they grew up in, this same small town.

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So if you're trying to get your reports at the hospital, or you're trying to

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get, something done anywhere, really, there's always these connections.

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And even if you don't know the person, they know somebody or you

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went to the same school that you did or something that remembered

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you playing basketball or whatever.

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So there's a lot of that kind of connection that really you take for

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granted when you're a small town.

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you don't realize that the reason you were able to get that done or the

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reason you were able to see that doctor or whatever it was you're trying to

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do had to do with where you lived.

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when you get to a larger place, what I've discovered is It's

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not that people are uncaring.

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They're just focused upon themselves.

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They don't know you.

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They got a lot to do.

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And so they're seldom, I'm not gonna say never, but they're not

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seldom going to go the extra mile because there's no motivation.

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They're never gonna talk to you again.

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They don't know anybody, you know, rare, you know, most of the time.

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and so, to me, that's a huge.

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difference, in the area.

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I also think that when it comes to ministry or probably any

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business in a small town, it's easier to build a reputation.

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You know, it's easier to get the word out because you just

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is talking about less people.

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And as a result, those folks are apart.

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Like we used to do a fair booth when we in the church that we started, you

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know, and we would feed the fair workers and we were highly involved in that.

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And they have a, thing that they used to have.

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I don't know if they still do, but it's called loose caboose.

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And we'd be part of the walk for life.

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And we'd be a part of all those things in the community, which

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would allow us to minister.

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And it's also, you know, an opportunity to put yourself out

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there, to market yourself, where in a large area, you don't have that.

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coming together of everybody.

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it's a bunch of different walk for lives and the fair is, 25 miles away

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and the folks that are there don't live, do life, you know, you tend to

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do life in small sections in a city.

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and so it makes it a lot more difficult to get the word out about,

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who you are and what you're doing and what you're about in that sense.

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Now, again, I think one of the advantages is opportunities and diversity.

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you got a diversity of thought, diversity of culture.

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And with that comes incredible opportunity.

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We're in a small town.

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People are kind of settled in their ways.

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and so the opportunities aren't, as, there's always opportunity, but not

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as, Many, change is more difficult.

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I think in a small town, more cultural pushback against change where in there's

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so much change in a large area, you know, people are coming and people are

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leaving and new businesses are starting.

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And so, you know, there's always, Some challenge to change, but it's easier,

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you know, it's not as, necessarily tied to you, you know, you don't

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become the black sheep because of some change you made or in a small town.

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you tend to do that.

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and then just the pace of life, I think is a lot.

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I mean, you can run fast in a small town, but you have to run fast in a larger area

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if you're going to succeed, to any extent.

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Yeah,

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about to ask about the pace, because in my mind I'm sitting here thinking

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about that one time I drew Drove through Paragold and then also I've driven down

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I 95 in South Florida, Fort Lauderdale.

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We've actually spent some of our time down in that area.

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And I noticed that I just gripped the steering wheel different when

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I'm driving on the interstate.

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You know, there's a little bit of a heart rate going and things like that.

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go ahead and start bringing up potential into it.

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Uh, I think many times people believe.

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They're supposed to go to a certain place or follow someone or do something

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like that very similar to the example you used throughout and I'm going

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to love this conversation is Moses throughout the book is, you know,

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Moses had three, what I consider three phases to his life and and I believe

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that many of us have those phases too.

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It sounds like Troy had a small town phase and now there's a bigger city phase and.

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a little bit about how important it is for everybody to kind of have their,

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this goes to a journey question, to have their own journey and not attempt

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to be copying the potential of someone else, which is a big topic for me.

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I think, one it's easy to get in a hurry, right?

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So in our effort to succeed, we tend to say, okay, here's a person who

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succeeded and, the quickest route may be for me to try to become them.

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And I think there's a temptation to do that, especially when things

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aren't going the way you want them.

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it's like, should I go like this person or be like that person?

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but I think when you think about it in the context of potential, it's always God.

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We were in the heart and mind of God before he ever created us.

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So I'm gonna find my greatest success.

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I'm gonna glorify God the best when I'm who he created me to be.

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And so I can slow down and embrace that.

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The season that I'm in, whether that's a season of building, you know, and

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depending on your age, depending on where you're at financially,

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depending on where your family, are you single, are you married, do you

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have kids, do you have grandkids?

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I think all those things kind of impact the season that we find ourselves in.

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And I think when, again, if we can slow down and dis it's

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okay to discover, you know?

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And I, I know 'cause for me, the big change was.

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At the church I started, I've been at three churches.

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I originally before I wasn't expecting to be in pastor and it was a hundred

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year old Mount Zion Baptist Church.

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And then years later, we started the church and then I'm here.

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but I think in that church we planted, I planted the church

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because God had given me a vision.

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Here, I didn't come here to be the lead pastor.

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So I had to wait.

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Okay, God, why am I here?

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You know, why have you opened this door for me?

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Where is it you want me to lead?

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How do I embrace who I am, especially in this different culture from

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what I experienced in Arkansas.

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And I do think in those seasons, you may borrow from somebody, but you're, you

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know, that you can't ever stop searching.

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I remember when I was playing basketball, I had a coach and he

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told us, if you sprain your ankle or something, you put a brace on it.

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He said, but you want to get the brace off as soon as you can, because if you

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don't, your ankle will begin to rely upon it and it'll become permanently weak.

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and I think the same thing can happen when we're with our voice.

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you know, if I'm not sure where we're supposed to go, I may borrow

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Rick Warren's baseball diamond or, somebody else's, whatever.

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But if I start relying on those things, then all of a sudden it's like that

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brace, I lose the ability to find my voice and I'm never going to be as effective

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being somebody else or being in somebody else's season as I am, with my voice.

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And I think, you know, to me, that's, The most important part

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of potential is the belief.

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I think the reason we do that a lot is because we give up on our own potential.

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We, the own idea that God can do something great with our lives, you know, and

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so we're like, well, I'll borrow his greatness or her greatness, you know,

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and maybe it'll rub off on me when, I mean, I get chills every time I think

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about the fact that I'm intentional.

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God created me.

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And now sometimes I get frustrated about that because I got

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couldn't have done a better job.

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I mean, you look at this nose or ears or whatever it might be.

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But I think, man, if he created me intentional, he didn't create me to fail.

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Then I can pursue who he's made me to be.

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I need to discover that and embrace that and, you know, grow that part of who I am.

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one of the interesting things that I think is very challenging for

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leaders, I see this in business.

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I work with leaders and leadership teams, primarily in companies, some

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in ministries, primarily in companies.

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and and I do see people at times attempting to copy somebody

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else, but I don't know if this is just an observation of mine.

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You can correct me if I'm wrong or anything like that, but I see

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a lot copying what we'll call that pastor church world role.

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You know, a lot of programs that someone will say, Oh, well, these people

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have added blank number of people.

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We need to do something similar and all that.

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And I bring that up because I'd love for you to comment on it, and you know, I'm

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not asking you to throw anybody under the bus or anything like that, but I'd like

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for you to comment on it, and then maybe follow it up with, it seems as if, I don't

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know, you mentioned intentional, I don't know how intentional this is, it seems

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as if you were Sort of push the envelope to, to either be different or do your own

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thing, reach your own potential might be a way of saying it by, you know, doing

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things like you talk about in the book, living in a glass house, which I'm sitting

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here reading you talking about that sermon and all, and you and your wife, I'm like

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going, good gracious, I'm what a woman she is to put up with that type stuff.

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I like to meet that Stephanie, you um, talk talk a little bit about the industry.

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Let's talk about pastors in general and how they are.

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They seem to be copycats a lot, so you could comment on that, and then

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talk about what you've done to maybe avoid that to reach your potential.

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Yeah, I mean, I think There's probably some truth to that because

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of the ease of information, right?

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You know, what anybody's doing, you're able to discover.

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And I think some of it is a result of just the time crunch, and the demands of

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ministry, creativity is one of our ethos.

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And we talk about the definition to just stay in the room

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past the first idea, right?

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But that takes time.

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And some people are more wired administratively.

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So it's like, where do you want to eat first place that somebody comes up

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with their ready to go or somebody else going to say, well, what about here?

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And so I think in ministry, a lot of times what happens is,

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it's accessible, you know, and

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not only is it accessible to the pastor, but the pastor is going every

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weekend and hearing about so and so.

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Oh man, did you hear so and so's teaching or man?

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I downloaded seven so's worship album and you know, so the pastor's dealing

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with man, you know, I'm competing, you know, I always think of it this way.

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I'm competing with them, listening to their favorite teacher, talk

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about their favorite subject.

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And I'm trying to teach the whole Council of God's Word,

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you know, on a weekly basis.

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So, I think pastors feel that pressure.

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and then I think, you know, that week gets busy and, you know,

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Here's a program or a teaching or whatever, and they jump, into that.

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I think the important thing is if you're going to, you know, borrow

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whatever word you want to use there, maybe steal what some would say, I

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think the question you have to ask yourself, is this, is this really me?

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Is this passion from me?

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And, because if you do, there's going to be a transformation of it in some way.

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You know what I'm saying?

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Whether it's a teaching or, Hey, you guys have this thing.

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And so we're going to do it as well.

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If I went to both, I might see that it's similar, but I'd struggle

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to see that it's the same, you know, where you got it per se.

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to me, that's one of the things I think it's important is to, again, like we were

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talking earlier is to be a vulnerable and to be authentic and to be real because

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people can pick up on that really quick.

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And I think, There's that danger that you have to steer away from.

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For me, there's a part of me that is, creative.

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And so I'm curious.

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So I'm always asking questions.

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And so that makes it easier for me to be original.

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You know what I mean?

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Just because I'm wired that way.

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I remember.

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The first time I heard, live Pastor Joel speak, you know, and he's telling all

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these old preacher jokes that I heard when I was a kid going to conferences

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and people are dying laughing.

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And I'm thinking, you know, I stopped sharing those, little stories or whatever.

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And yet they continue to be effective in the sense of drawing those

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crowds in because people love that.

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So I think.

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If you're noticing it, right, then I have to ask myself, is it really me?

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You know, if you can see clearly that I'm just following along here

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and I think as a preacher, as a pastor, as a leader, I just got to

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be careful that I don't lose myself.

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Here's

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know,

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here's the weird thing about that, it's just interesting you bring it up.

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Pastor Joel, who kind of, we'll call it reusing, maybe playing the greatest hits.

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You know, there's a, there's a line from a movie.

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If you go see the Rolling Stones and they don't sing Satisfaction,

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you're going to be pretty ticked.

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And I've been seeing clips on social media of the Eagles, which is a

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band from know, formative years.

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it's now 50 years in.

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you know, the first song that.

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rip into his hotel, California.

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And it's like, if you went to see them, I think they're at the sphere now.

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And Ella, I mean, Las Vegas, if you go to see them and they don't play

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hotel, California, you're you're probably gonna be pretty miffed.

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I

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they.

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Play those same, Don Henley has been playing that song forever.

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You know, I don't think they're cranking out any new stuff.

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So there is a little bit of a repeat and then also there's create.

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And I think, I think we're probably getting to a place where there's

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not a lot of new under the sun.

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But I think Tim can make it his, Troy can make it his and, and I

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think that's where we can maybe tie into the, to the potential talk.

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I do want to say in the book, it's very rare that I get references like

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Yoda, Bob Marley, Karate Kid and all that all in like one book and tie all.

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Tie all that together.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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uh, so, so related to, uh, let's still keep on this theme of potential.

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What I'd like to do is back up a little bit, cause you talk about

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a good bit of some highs and some lows in your life in the book.

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But I think what I'd love to do right now, cause in here, here on our podcast,

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we don't shy away from defining success.

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when we define it though, we don't, we don't really look at the superficial.

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of success.

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we we talk about redefining success.

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And I even think you had a reference on one of the pages I saw highlighted it

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where you mentioned, um, a redefining of success, but what are some things

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go back, let's, let's look at the Troy story here, go back and tell me a few

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times over the course of your life.

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you've had to redefine what success looks like and I think I'm gonna go

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ahead and tee it up a little bit I'd love for you to go back to your sports

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days because I find that people that have aspirations of Athletics it can

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often be difficult when they realize that they're not going to live off athletics

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for a long time longer period of time.

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So if you want to do something different, that's fine.

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But I'd love to hear definitely about the basketball and coaching and So when

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are some, when are some times you've had to redefine success in your life?

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think, as I stopped playing basketball, because, in basketball,

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you have a scoreboard and it's very defined, and not only you have a

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scoreboard, you have stats, right?

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And what a good basketball player is pretty defined.

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if you score this many and this percentage, then

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you're this style of player.

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And at the end of the game, you win or you lose.

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And I remember, because I wasn't planning on going into ministry,

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I was planning on coaching.

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I mean, that was really what.

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the direction I thought I was headed.

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and that was difficult to wrestle with.

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So what is success?

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I can step down off the platform and I can have one person say, man,

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God used that to change my life.

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And another person be incredibly critical about what I did, same teaching.

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So did I win or did I lose, did I honor God?

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Well, that's a harder question to answer.

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I mean, I've got what I feel the spirit, in my heart and I've got the people that

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I trust, but those are subjective, right?

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Because we're all people and we like and dislike and, and all of that.

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So I, to me, that's the one that maybe I have struggled with the most is

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because, I mean, I don't like losing, but I like to know when I'm losing.

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Yeah.

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and, and in, ministry, you often hear people will say, well, if we just

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reach one person, if we just touch one person and that always sounds really

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good, but some has touched one person

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And it's not that that one person doesn't matter.

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Jesus left the 99 to go after the one, the one does have great value,

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but the question is always what's the best way in which to reach the one,

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and, but having to redefine it there, I think, was incredibly challenging.

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And I don't know, along the way, If I've ever actually, I mean, I can say

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something, but what do I feel, because success from my mouth and from my heart

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are often different things, I mean, I know what I'm supposed to say success is,

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but then I also know the pressures of.

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of the external things that people would declare success.

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and so I think for me, that's a continuing wrestling match, and

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then I think as I get older, like I'm not going to, I'm going to die.

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Do I retire?

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I've got kids that are in the ministry that are gifted and some of the same

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areas as me, so am I in the way of them?

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Am I in the way of the church?

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when does that happen?

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you got.

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the Erwin McManus is 66, 67, still going strong.

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You got, I know Bill Hybels at one time in the early fifties was

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thinking about, succession and stuff.

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So you got it all over the board and figuring out what God wants

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and what's best for the church.

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and then, what success looks like in those things during covid is

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another time having to redefine, speaking to an empty auditorium.

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We put actually, we took, from our database.

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We took pictures of people and put them on the chairs.

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because here, you know what?

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It's so funny because.

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you often hear preachers say, I love to preach.

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It's the people that give me a difficulty.

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And, I love opportunity to lead and coach.

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So I, I enjoy people in that sense, but I didn't know how

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much until COVID to be honest.

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I, I, I mean, It, it, was, emotional in a way to, to teach not, there's

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the lack of energy of an empty crowd, nobody there, there's all of that.

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I just felt a longing that I didn't know I really would have, because in some

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ways pastors got What they always wanted during COVID, you couldn't be around

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people, but you still had to preach, I remember the first weekend we opened

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up and you're thinking, whoo, we're gonna have this giant crowd of people.

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Of course we didn't.

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But I just remember the emotional aspect of seeing people, out there

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and realizing that God, whatever we do is, is again, intentional.

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And that as a pastor, I have a calling that impacts my heart in

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ways that I don't always understand.

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and that was one of those times where it's like, okay, this is, this You

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know, and during that whole time you're thinking, what does, success look like?

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is it this number, is it this amount of changed lives, all

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those different kinds of things.

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So I think we're, and then we're always changing too and growing.

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So in some ways.

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my kids, grandkids, their lives, so I don't know if that

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answers your question, but it

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is a continual process.

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it does, I think it highlights challenge that we all face

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in attempting to define it.

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there are a couple things that came to mind while you were saying that,

Speaker: 00:28:20

Troy, and I'll bring them up here.

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One of the things when I'm doing research and doing bios and all for the podcast,

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I, I kind of look at things and I go, I go, That's That's an interesting thing.

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but one of the things that always occurs with pastors, I'm not saying

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this is a good thing or bad thing.

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I'm just going to kind of call it out and then we can discuss it is

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there's usually a number associated with the size of their congregation.

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And, and I think we feel compelled to do that.

Speaker: 00:28:48

You know, I think 20, 000 members is kind of the number that y'all have.

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I guess, I guess a question I want to ask you right here is, is that a good

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measure of success for, for church world.

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I I don't know.

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I I ask it a lot.

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Sometimes I could be cynical too, by the way, just so you know, to go ahead

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and telegraph that I could be cynical.

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Am I going in 20, 000?

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But anyway, what do you, is that a good measure when we're talking uh, world.

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And so I'm going to pour gas on the conversation you just gave about, you just

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had about, you know, how to do success.

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Yeah.

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it's a number that the cultures determined, define success.

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it represents some sense of influence.

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And influence can be a positive thing.

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I guess like any number it can, drive you to, to, to destruction,

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and your pursuit of it, with, cause in some sense it's power, right?

Speaker: 00:29:42

So you got money, you got power, right.

Speaker: 00:29:44

And the pursuit of either one of those, can be destructive.

Speaker: 00:29:48

I don't know if the number's good or bad.

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I do think it's part of our culture's definition of success to some sense.

Speaker: 00:29:54

I think, the number without changed lives, which is kind of difficult to do

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If you're going to have that many folks, whatever the number is,

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depending on the size of the city you're going to have something happening

Speaker: 00:30:05

to draw those kinds of folks, so I don't know if it's, good or bad.

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I think it's what he is.

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And I think as a pastor, we all know what to say.

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We all know it.

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But at the end of the day, when I go talk to a publisher about this book, that

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number matters, you know what I mean?

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And, just like, how many are following you on this or that handle

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or watching, all those things.

Speaker: 00:30:25

So it's, hard to say, well, they don't matter.

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Because whether you get your book published, they matter or not,

Speaker: 00:30:30

and then, whether you're, able to do that ministry, the offering

Speaker: 00:30:36

number matters on what you can do.

Speaker: 00:30:38

So, I don't know if that answers your question.

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it's, it's it's really good.

Speaker: 00:30:41

It shows the contradictions that can occur.

Speaker: 00:30:45

And, and I love that.

Speaker: 00:30:47

I love, I kind of loved the rawness of the way you answered it and listen, I

Speaker: 00:30:52

read the number when I introduced you.

Speaker: 00:30:55

Yeah, so so it's not, you know, if, if it was, if it was like, no, I'm

Speaker: 00:30:59

really uncomfortable that I would have left it off, but no, you're right.

Speaker: 00:31:02

Publishers look at it.

Speaker: 00:31:03

It's a measurement.

Speaker: 00:31:04

I think at times those numbers can begin running us instead of us allowing

Speaker: 00:31:10

the numbers to just be a descriptor.

Speaker: 00:31:13

And again, we, we've got business people listening in, you know, I've,

Speaker: 00:31:15

I've, Is my company a 5 million, 10 million, 20 million, 30 million company?

Speaker: 00:31:19

Those are numbers.

Speaker: 00:31:21

You know, how many employees do we have?

Speaker: 00:31:22

All those are numbers there's a question kind of related to that.

Speaker: 00:31:26

You brought it up just a second ago you've mentioned athletics.

Speaker: 00:31:30

We talked about you kind of being a coach.

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I call myself a coach.

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When I was growing up, both my parents were educators, Troy, and I wanted to

Speaker: 00:31:40

uh, probably a teacher and a coach.

Speaker: 00:31:42

And then I found out how much money they made, and I didn't want to do it anymore.

Speaker: 00:31:46

So I went to Georgia Tech, got an engineering degree and all that.

Speaker: 00:31:48

But everything I did, I came back to coaching.

Speaker: 00:31:51

I, Picked up and I'm gonna ask is I'm gonna pose it.

Speaker: 00:31:54

I'm gonna make it a Statement and then I'll just put a question mark

Speaker: 00:31:57

at the end of it as I was reading this book potential I knew a little

Speaker: 00:32:02

bit about your athletic background.

Speaker: 00:32:03

I know you're a pastor So you get up in front of uh, you know, you get on a

Speaker: 00:32:07

stage and you speak But to me it seems as if you're sort of a coach heart like

Speaker: 00:32:14

that's like a core Belief system of you and even when you get up in front

Speaker: 00:32:19

of crowds, maybe larger crowds You're still interested in that aspect of the

Speaker: 00:32:26

individual and that's probably the reason for the book potential here We'll talk

Speaker: 00:32:30

about the book here in just a second.

Speaker: 00:32:31

But would that be accurate?

Speaker: 00:32:33

Or not.

Speaker: 00:32:34

And just tell me more on what I just said.

Speaker: 00:32:39

Yeah, let me just go back to our other discussion real quick, if

Speaker: 00:32:41

that's okay, because I was thinking, I think when it comes to the numbers,

Speaker: 00:32:46

a lot of times the numbers, whatever business church or whatever, the

Speaker: 00:32:50

enemy tends to use those things to.

Speaker: 00:32:52

Push us against one another, like in the pastoral world, you'll hear someone

Speaker: 00:32:56

maybe who leads a smaller number church, whatever number you want to put there,

Speaker: 00:33:00

but they'll say, well, that mega church down the road, they, whatever, but where

Speaker: 00:33:06

they, when that couple is struggling, they come to me for counseling, now as

Speaker: 00:33:10

someone who might lead a larger church, I would say, yeah, but when your kids

Speaker: 00:33:13

want to go to camp, they come to us.

Speaker: 00:33:15

In other words, they coexist together.

Speaker: 00:33:18

And for the kingdom, they play a different role.

Speaker: 00:33:20

I think a lot of times our sense towards numbers is kind of the, I made

Speaker: 00:33:25

a commitment a long time ago when I was at the church we had started, I just

Speaker: 00:33:30

wasn't, I never asked anybody about their numbers, I'd never began that discussion

Speaker: 00:33:35

there because if your numbers aren't good, that's the last, because it is evaluated.

Speaker: 00:33:39

You know what I'm saying?

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It's the last question that people ask.

Speaker: 00:33:42

So I only bring that up to say, I think, in all walks of life, if somehow

Speaker: 00:33:47

we realize that there is a role, an important role, a significant role for

Speaker: 00:33:51

leaders of all different size companies and churches, and that there's not

Speaker: 00:33:57

The perfect size, in the sense that we both need each other to be able to best

Speaker: 00:34:03

give, the folks that we're trying to reach, a good product or, ministry or

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whatever it is that we're involved in.

Speaker: 00:34:10

when it comes to coaching, That's my heart.

Speaker: 00:34:12

I'm a coach as a father.

Speaker: 00:34:14

I'm a coach as a husband.

Speaker: 00:34:15

I'm a coach as a pastor.

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I'm a coach as a friend.

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I think the hardest thing for anybody who comes to Potential Church is to

Speaker: 00:34:20

continually be challenged, to not settle.

Speaker: 00:34:23

nothing thrills me more than to see people embrace, something

Speaker: 00:34:26

new to go to new places, take advantage of new opportunities.

Speaker: 00:34:29

And nothing grieves me greater than to see people waste opportunities or.

Speaker: 00:34:35

Not commit, not willing to give it everything they've when I was

Speaker: 00:34:38

playing basketball in college in high school, a small school.

Speaker: 00:34:41

I grew up in a small town, but when I got to college, we ran 40.

Speaker: 00:34:45

We ran forties and I never ran one of those in high school.

Speaker: 00:34:48

I didn't play football.

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I played basketball.

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Had to run track to play basketball.

Speaker: 00:34:52

Coach said that I ran a 40 and I was the fastest one on the team.

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That surprised the coach and it surprised me now.

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I didn't realize what I was doing because then the coach said, he said, you know

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what, from this day forward, I expect you to rent, win all running girls.

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And I got thrown out of practice one time because I didn't win.

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Yeah.

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so I kind of come from that mindset, if you're going to run, you better run with

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all that you got, if you're going to, I remember we were running down the Hill.

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We had this player, seven foot tall, he falls, we're running the Hills.

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He falls, he cuts his hand wide open.

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And then the coach is like, we'll get done running.

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We'll take him to the mercy room, And so nothing grieves me more than to

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see someone with potential, in their marriage or in their walk with God

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to, to settle for less than that.

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So yeah, that's what excites me, to get the opportunity to hopefully, help

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people pursue their potential there, what God's called and created them to do.

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You know, one of the things that a lot of people say is that it's

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the role of the church to disciple, and a lot of people that sometimes

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they don't know what that means.

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They don't understand discipling.

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And I think sometimes people think that standing up in front of,

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uh, you know, a large crowd and sharing a message is discipling.

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And there may be.

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parts of it.

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But really do think that that coaching mindset that you just

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described, I think that's kind of the heart of discipleship today.

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any thoughts on that?

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Especially since discipleship is such a big word in in churches.

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I really, when I heard you talking about it ago, he is discipling people

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because he's got that heart of a coach.

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Um, and also is that, would that be accurate, inaccurate?

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Uh, you want to agree, disagree or whatever?

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Yeah, I think, discipleship has a lot of different definitions and it's

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one of those things we all, you know, people, growth is hard, so it's always

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something we can focus on, We're not, um, doing a good job in this or that.

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I think that, what's a disciple?

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And I think there's nothing more glorifying to God than for us to

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become what he had in mind when he knew us together in our mother's womb.

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and so it's the pursuit of that.

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and, what is that?

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What is it that makes our heart beat?

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What is it that keeps us up at night?

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those kinds of pursuits I think is, and to not let people settle for less,

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Because discipleships gets associated often with knowledge.

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You know what I mean?

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What do you know?

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And what do you not know?

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And it's like.

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I think I can know a lot and still not be who God's created me

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to, to be and experiencing what he's created me to experience.

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so yeah, I never really understood, the, the, that I understand

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people need to be discipled.

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I also understand there's, Jesus had difficulty with it.

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at the end of his ministry, what was 120 people in the upper room.

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So, what makes us think that?

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we're going to reach a thousand people and have a thousand disciples or

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100 or 50 or whatever the number is.

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I think a lot of times the problems, what we do as Christians is we all, we

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advertise things we don't have ourselves.

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And what I mean by that is we talk a lot about peace.

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We talk a lot about joy.

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We talk a lot about, if you're a true disciple, then those things are evident.

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And yes.

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I, there is a joy and there is a peace, but there are days that I doubt

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there are days that I'm discouraged.

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There are days that I'm troubled.

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Right.

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And it's that Jesus walks with me through those.

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Everybody's going to experience those, The scripture and the spirit and Christ

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himself, give me a constructive way to deal with those things where somebody

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else may go down a destructive path.

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But it's not that I don't experience him.

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And I think sometimes as Christians, somebody becomes a Christ follower or

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whatever, and then they're discouraged and they're like, I must have not got it.

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You know, I didn't get the good stuff or whatever.

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and it's like, no, there really is a process to this.

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We're pretty good at, uh, judging the fruits of the Spirit in other people.

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We're not really good at judging it in maybe.

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think you shared it in the book, but how the heck does somebody

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come up with the name of potential?

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Church.

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have, I've traveled a lot all over the world, Australia, New

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Zealand, Europe, all over, and have never run into potential church.

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How'd that come about?

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It's kind of a God thing in the sense that we were Flamingo Road originally.

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before I got here, it actually used to be Flamingo Road Baptist Church.

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Then they changed it to Flamingo Road Church.

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And then we went multi site and, you know, pink birds aren't known everywhere.

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We have a campus of nine months.

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So we said, we need to change our name in 2010 is when we changed it.

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And it's like, well, what do we need to be called?

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And if you went way back to the day of day timers, okay, for your listeners,

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this is before smartphones and all that, and you would have to ride.

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In the front of it, like your mission or your vision or something like that.

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And if I could find mine, you go back and it would say something very

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similar to what our mission statement is today, as far as helping people

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reach their potential to become what God's created them to be.

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That's just been a part of me as far back as I can remember.

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And I used to take all my guys to go to church with me

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when I was playing basketball,

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Just that desire to see them become more.

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And so that's where it came from.

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And then, you know, in 2010, it's the, you know, handles are still important.

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we were able to get all the handles, for all the social media stuff and it

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fit, with who God's created me to be.

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Cause I really think when it comes to pastoring that God brought me

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here because of who he made me to be.

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I am who I am.

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Now, when God gets ready to do something different, he's going

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to bring somebody with a different personality to lead them to a different

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place, but I can't be all things.

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You know what I'm saying?

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I'm not John MacArthur to, you know, who has a different style.

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I mean, I can't imagine John MacArthur with some tattoos on his arms.

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That's not mean his style is bad.

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It just means I can't.

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You, I grew up for your young listeners.

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There used to be this kind of thing on the weekend where for the, you know,

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we're gonna reach down church midweek.

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We're gonna be for the believers.

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You know what I mean?

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And it's like, If you were to go back and we did that, I mean, you know,

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it's, that was the end thing to do.

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Talk about following, you know, trends.

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That's what we did.

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but if you went back and listened to both those teachings, , it would

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sound very similar because that's who I am, you know, I mean, and I, again,

Speaker: 00:41:00

I just wish we could have more grace.

Speaker: 00:41:02

Truth is truth, and we don't wanna drift from the truth.

Speaker: 00:41:04

But man, I just wish we could have more grace.

Speaker: 00:41:07

for one another and that it's not, I don't want to teach this or I'm afraid of that.

Speaker: 00:41:11

Or because if I teach the same thing on a social issue, let's say that maybe a

Speaker: 00:41:18

john MacArthur might teach on that issue.

Speaker: 00:41:19

It's just gonna sound different for me.

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It's not that I'm going to say anything different or not be as strong.

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It's just going to sound different because of the way I'm wired and called to be.

Speaker: 00:41:29

And if I try to be John MacArthur, I'm not as smart as he is.

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I have his education and, I can't pronounce the Greek language.

Speaker: 00:41:37

So I would be in a world of hurt, but that's okay where he needs to

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be doing what he needs to be doing.

Speaker: 00:41:43

Oh, we've got these on YouTube and I've just had this vision of when

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you brought up John MacArthur with tattoos, I had this vision of.

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bringing in a graphic with John McArthur with tattoos, but then I'm

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thinking Then my next thought goes, you know, we could be liable there could

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be some could be something coming.

Speaker: 00:42:00

It would probably generate a lot of interest and all of that

Speaker: 00:42:02

So I I love the word potential.

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In fact, you'll hear me when I wrap up We're 280 episodes in on this podcast

Speaker: 00:42:09

and my last sentence Is always be all that you were created to be and which

Speaker: 00:42:15

to me is the definition of potential But did you get any pushback at all?

Speaker: 00:42:19

I mean, come on, Flamingo Road Church, that is, that is sexy right there.

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Did someone say, no, we're Flamingo Road, dang it, we are not

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moving into this potential stuff.

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I mean, what was that transition like?

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Was it okay?

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Yeah, you know, we worked hard, included people and the whole process.

Speaker: 00:42:41

And then, I'm sure people said that, that you just didn't say it to me, but, we

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didn't have a lot of pushback and, that's the good and the bad of south Florida.

Speaker: 00:42:48

It's very unchurched area.

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I read an article the other day.

Speaker: 00:42:51

west Palm Beach is the most never churched city in the country, you know?

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So the good with that is there's not a lot of church stuff.

Speaker: 00:43:01

people pretty well go along, but the other side of that, they really don't

Speaker: 00:43:04

care enough to do other things, you know, so has the good and the bad.

Speaker: 00:43:08

So somewhere along the way.

Speaker: 00:43:10

you've got church going along, you've got a lot of things happening,

Speaker: 00:43:13

you've got podcasts, you've got all these cool things going on.

Speaker: 00:43:16

You decided to write a book that was by the same name, Potential, and you even

Speaker: 00:43:21

talk about in here that writing isn't

Speaker: 00:43:26

your favorite thing.

Speaker: 00:43:27

I might be putting words into it, but why write book?

Speaker: 00:43:35

I feel like this is one of those areas where actually I

Speaker: 00:43:38

feel like I was disobedient.

Speaker: 00:43:40

there's not a lot of things where I just know God was telling me to do

Speaker: 00:43:43

something and I just didn't do it.

Speaker: 00:43:45

so God, I feel nudge and I just like, ah, well, if God wants me

Speaker: 00:43:48

to do this, it'll happen, and I don't have a clue what that meant.

Speaker: 00:43:51

it's going to fall out of the sky.

Speaker: 00:43:53

That's not the way I pastored.

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That's not the way I fathered.

Speaker: 00:43:55

That's not the way I, but, and then, but it, so to me, it just got, came to

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getting around to just being obedient.

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I had the, the ministry team here pushing me, and realizing that

Speaker: 00:44:09

cause, I was always the shy kid.

Speaker: 00:44:11

So, you continue to wrestle through with that, but realizing to that it would

Speaker: 00:44:17

have a positive impact on the church.

Speaker: 00:44:19

we live in a day where people go to social media before they

Speaker: 00:44:22

visit the church and they, you know, we're talking about numbers.

Speaker: 00:44:25

They're going to judge before they ever show up whether or not

Speaker: 00:44:27

God's there by certain numbers.

Speaker: 00:44:29

And the book is just another way, to garner influence.

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I believe in the message with all of my heart.

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I'm passionate about it.

Speaker: 00:44:37

So it just made sense to, go ahead and do it.

Speaker: 00:44:41

I learned a lot along the way.

Speaker: 00:44:43

It was hard.

Speaker: 00:44:44

The writing part was easier than I thought, but the process was a lot

Speaker: 00:44:50

more challenging than I realized.

Speaker: 00:44:53

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:44:53

What'd you learn about yourself along the way?

Speaker: 00:44:56

I had to wrestle with.

Speaker: 00:44:59

sometimes it's easier to be comfortable, not succeeding than

Speaker: 00:45:03

to take the risk to succeed.

Speaker: 00:45:05

And what I mean by that is, you know, it's one thing to say, I wrote a

Speaker: 00:45:08

book, I remember hearing John Maxwell a long time ago, he'd sell his books

Speaker: 00:45:13

And some people would be cynical, all he's doing is making money.

Speaker: 00:45:16

But I always thought he just really believes in what his message is.

Speaker: 00:45:19

I'm sure he made some money along the way, but, He really believed in that, and

Speaker: 00:45:22

I think, being confident enough to say, look, I think this can impact your life

Speaker: 00:45:26

in a positive way, can be encourage you.

Speaker: 00:45:28

it's an easy read.

Speaker: 00:45:29

It's, that kind of thing, but having confidence in it I can get

Speaker: 00:45:33

up and speak with great confidence.

Speaker: 00:45:35

English wasn't always my greatest subject when it came to spelling and

Speaker: 00:45:38

writing it's just amazing to me that those things that I felt in middle

Speaker: 00:45:43

school and high school, I can still feel as a 56 year old man, I think the

Speaker: 00:45:47

thing I learned about me is still, I don't want to not succeed because I'm.

Speaker: 00:45:52

more comfortable being the underdog,

Speaker: 00:45:55

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:45:56

as opposed to being the one that's expect because I think, you know,

Speaker: 00:45:59

it's always a lot more pressure when you're the one that's expected to win

Speaker: 00:46:01

and you don't, whatever that means.

Speaker: 00:46:05

ways, it goes back to what we were talking about earlier is like, how, how

Speaker: 00:46:08

do we even measure success in this realm?

Speaker: 00:46:12

What is the potential of a book that's titled potential, you know, is, is kind

Speaker: 00:46:17

of an interesting conversation to have.

Speaker: 00:46:20

I'll say it's it's a great read.

Speaker: 00:46:23

it's it's not a complex read, which I like by the way, just so you know,

Speaker: 00:46:27

I actually saw a lot of Troy Perigold and Troy, South Florida, that I kind

Speaker: 00:46:36

of like the marrying of that, uh, in in a book like this, because I think

Speaker: 00:46:41

it relates to a lot more people.

Speaker: 00:46:42

I think it really helps to expand that out.

Speaker: 00:46:45

Um, I found for myself, it's really tough for me to multitask when I'm writing.

Speaker: 00:46:50

Other things I can multitask.

Speaker: 00:46:52

I could like, you know, I could be, I could speak.

Speaker: 00:46:55

Sometimes I could even do this kind of stuff and like have other stuff going on.

Speaker: 00:46:58

I don't like to, writing when I'm writing, man, I've got to be on.

Speaker: 00:47:01

I can't, my mind can't go other places.

Speaker: 00:47:04

And that was probably the toughest thing for me about writing.

Speaker: 00:47:07

Cause I'm kind of an action oriented.

Speaker: 00:47:08

You're you seem action oriented and sitting down and putting,

Speaker: 00:47:13

you know, 50, 000 or whatever, how many words you got here?

Speaker: 00:47:16

That's like a, that's a lot of focus So, uh, there's one chapter

Speaker: 00:47:20

that I, that I loved and I love in our, time together, maybe to kind

Speaker: 00:47:23

of unpack that just a little bit.

Speaker: 00:47:25

It was chapter six, where you kind of, you dove into a little bit of what happened

Speaker: 00:47:30

with potential church and yourself around COVID, and then you you'd been referencing

Speaker: 00:47:37

the story of Moses all along, you really dug in a little bit more to some

Speaker: 00:47:42

lessons learned from the life of Moses.

Speaker: 00:47:45

What, what, what do you want to share here in a couple minutes?

Speaker: 00:47:49

About that whole chapter because to me that's like that

Speaker: 00:47:52

was like the heart of the book

Speaker: 00:47:55

Yeah, I think the great study of Moses is, you know, this incredible

Speaker: 00:48:00

leader that scholars and everyone would agree was an amazing leader,

Speaker: 00:48:05

incredibly insecure, in some ways he's perfect who God chose, right?

Speaker: 00:48:10

He was rescued, grew up in the palace, but when God He was nowhere.

Speaker: 00:48:17

He was nobody.

Speaker: 00:48:18

And he didn't grow up with the Hebrew teachings.

Speaker: 00:48:21

He grew up in the Egyptian God's teachings.

Speaker: 00:48:23

God chose him.

Speaker: 00:48:24

And he had tried once and failed.

Speaker: 00:48:26

and yet, God did something incredible in his life.

Speaker: 00:48:30

And I think the biggest challenge to success is discouragement.

Speaker: 00:48:33

one of the things that we continue to learn from Moses is that it's

Speaker: 00:48:37

never too late, whether you've made a mistake or you're older than you

Speaker: 00:48:40

thought you should be or whatever it is.

Speaker: 00:48:43

because to me, the saddest thing is when you feel that you can no longer.

Speaker: 00:48:49

reach that potential, accomplish that purpose, live out your destiny.

Speaker: 00:48:53

you lose hope in the future and you're just existing.

Speaker: 00:48:57

Yeah, could you could you picture I always think about Moses because

Speaker: 00:49:00

he was in the palace for 40 years Probably being groomed to be Pharaoh

Speaker: 00:49:05

or a type of Pharaoh leader and then he was he wasn't in the desert for 40

Speaker: 00:49:09

He was on the backside of the desert.

Speaker: 00:49:11

was and and then for 40 years he spent with

Speaker: 00:49:17

This is going to sound cynical, but with a grumbling, complaining

Speaker: 00:49:19

group of church people.

Speaker: 00:49:22

He was with a bunch of church people for

Speaker: 00:49:24

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:49:25

And then at the very end, he got a glimpse of the promised

Speaker: 00:49:28

land, but he didn't into it.

Speaker: 00:49:29

You know, I, I think it goes back to the conversation we were

Speaker: 00:49:31

having earlier, Troy, is, know, we define success in a lot of ways.

Speaker: 00:49:37

And I think if some people were going to define Moses, they would

Speaker: 00:49:41

try to say he wasn't successful.

Speaker: 00:49:43

But yet, thousands of years later, we're still talking about him as one

Speaker: 00:49:47

of the greatest leaders of all time.

Speaker: 00:49:48

Correct?

Speaker: 00:49:50

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:49:50

There's no doubt about that.

Speaker: 00:49:51

And there's no doubt that, I think it's, one of the most inspirational,

Speaker: 00:49:57

but scary, you know, when you think that he missed it, you know, and, that just

Speaker: 00:50:03

reminds you the importance of every day,

Speaker: 00:50:06

And like even even in our situation where, you know, we'll lift up a prayer

Speaker: 00:50:11

on Monday and be disappointed if it's not answered by Friday or Sunday.

Speaker: 00:50:15

And Moses is sitting here, 40, anyway.

Speaker: 00:50:18

I Think Think about that, especially when I do my read through the Old

Speaker: 00:50:21

Testament, sometimes when I do it chronologically, I'm going, know, we

Speaker: 00:50:25

don't have any perspective on time

Speaker: 00:50:27

all in

Speaker: 00:50:28

know, they were enslaved for 350 years.

Speaker: 00:50:30

and then when they get free, God takes them the roundabout way.

Speaker: 00:50:34

He doesn't take him straight there, You know, it's like Oh, my goodness.

Speaker: 00:50:38

there's like a, the second in command, Josh was in charge and

Speaker: 00:50:41

they're about to go in and fight.

Speaker: 00:50:43

And then all of a sudden there's this instruction of like, all right,

Speaker: 00:50:45

all y'all need to get circumcised.

Speaker: 00:50:47

I don't want to go into detail there, but that would not be like To me,

Speaker: 00:50:52

a great preparation for battle.

Speaker: 00:50:57

don't know.

Speaker: 00:51:01

It's such a great story.

Speaker: 00:51:02

It really is because we can all identify with it on our journey, no

Speaker: 00:51:06

matter where we're at in that journey.

Speaker: 00:51:09

Yeah, Troy, there's one word that you brought up.

Speaker: 00:51:11

I want to bring it up before we kind of wrap uh, I think,

Speaker: 00:51:14

let me see if I wrote it down.

Speaker: 00:51:15

I had a highlight.

Speaker: 00:51:17

was on page 152.

Speaker: 00:51:18

You're talking about leadership and there's a word you bring up called hubris.

Speaker: 00:51:24

Cockiness, arrogance, whatever, we could kind of throw a lot of things in there.

Speaker: 00:51:27

I think you're speaking of it as it's one of the challenges that leaders,

Speaker: 00:51:32

and again, we've got ministry leaders, we've got corporate leaders, we've got

Speaker: 00:51:36

small business leaders listening in.

Speaker: 00:51:39

Talk a little bit about how challenging hubris can be.

Speaker: 00:51:44

then we'll wrap up with a couple of questions and be done here.

Speaker: 00:51:47

So how does it, how is that the kryptonite to most leaders?

Speaker: 00:51:52

Hubris.

Speaker: 00:51:53

Yeah, I think, you're going to attract folks who agree with you for the most

Speaker: 00:51:57

part in whatever it is that you're doing.

Speaker: 00:51:59

And if you have some success, then it's very easy to get caught up

Speaker: 00:52:03

in, that success and the belief then that that leads to, what You

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deserve, you know, this is what I did this, and that kind of ownership.

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And I think humility on the other side is not denying your success,

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but as understanding from where it comes from, cause if we look at

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it like Moses and we realize I'm not guaranteed the promised land.

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This is, you know what I mean?

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God's given me these gifts and you know, they're not, what did they say?

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Lifetime warranty kind of thing.

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You know, that the humility is understanding this is, I'm a steward

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of this and, you know, because it keeps you humble because you, then you're

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having to determine every day, how do I be a good steward of this influence

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or this position or this money because the moment, and I think the it's so

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dangerous is because To become arrogant is to not have to deal with the tension.

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The moment I start to believe I've earned it and deserve it.

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And it's my right now, and I'll have to deal with the tension of should I do

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this or, you know, whatever the risk is.

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But so I think it's just continuing to remind myself I'm a steward.

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And, you know, I want to finish well, but I think it's a continued, challenge.

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I mean, we see, you know, we screw up until the day we die.

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So we're never beyond that ability to, to become arrogant.

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Yeah, and one of the things, obviously, there's a lot of leaders

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that have struggled with that.

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Some have had challenges.

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Is there anything just like a tip or thought, something that you do

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attempt to stay grounded, to keep that humility, to not let that hubris,

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dis ease kind of Creep in anything that you could recommend to other

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leaders that they can do that sure.

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Listen, you know, if you're a listening person, you will attract folks who will

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be honest with you don't listen, then people give up and all of a sudden they

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only tell you what you want to hear, which as a leader, you got to remember

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that for the most part, most people are going to tell you what you want to

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hear, whether it's the truth or not.

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they're gonna tell you they can do something and then complain later

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that they have to do it, you know, and not because they're mean, that's

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just the way we are as humanity.

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but if you listen to people and you value their opinion, I think

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you're more likely to get the truth.

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which can protect you, from, making a horrific decision.

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So, uh, I know, I know the book is something people are going to

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want, but they may want to connect with you or potential church.

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And I know you've got podcast and YouTube and like that.

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Uh, Troy, tell everybody where they can find you and the book and

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we'll include it down in the notes.

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Yeah.

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The book can, wherever they buy books, Amazon, all those kinds of

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things would love if they do get it and read it, leave a review.

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Those things, the algorithm is king when it comes to that kind of stuff.

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And then as far as me, it's my name, Troy Grambling on All the social medias.

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And then for the weekend teaching, she can go to potentialchurch.

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com or the same, with all the social media handles.

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All right, very cool.

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We'll include all that down in the notes.

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We're Seek, Go, Create.

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Troy, those three words, you could probably guess the origins of those words.

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I'm going to allow you to choose one of those over the other two.

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That just, you know, resonates more with you, means more.

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Seek, Go, or Create, and Why.

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You know, they're all good words, but I think, seek to me is the

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one that jumps off to me today.

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And I think it's because I think there's incredible opportunity and curiosity

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and a willingness to, I think the other two might even come from the first one.

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and it's easy to lose the desire to seek.

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Seeking takes energy and, you know, if you have any kind of success

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in your life, it's easy to stop.

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seeking, stop reading, growing, learning, asking the questions.

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So that's one that jumps out at me.

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Absolutely.

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Yep.

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There's a reason they're in that order, too.

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They, the Lord spoke those to me a number of years back at one

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of the lowest points in my life.

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So, Troy Gramling, I appreciate this conversation.

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I love, I love you allowing my sometimes interesting and odd

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questions that uh, that I ask.

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Get a copy of the book, Potential.

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Uh, we told you earlier about where you could go if you are listening in and still

Speaker: 00:56:12

with us Especially if you're on youtube drop down in the comments pop a comment

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in there talk about potential comment on something We've said and I have an extra

Speaker: 00:56:21

copy of the book like I said, I got two and will uh pick someone in the comments

Speaker: 00:56:27

and drop a copy of Troy's book to you.

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So man, it's been a great conversation Appreciate everyone listening in

Speaker: 00:56:34

appreciate Pastor Troy taking the time Looking forward to seeing all

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the potential that grows out of this.

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We are seek go create We've got new episodes on youtube and all

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the podcast platforms every monday until next time Continue being

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all that you were created to be